[MOD TC/AP] Combat Mod 4 - v4.16 17/06/13 - AP 3.0 Compatibility

[paulwheeler]

I've noticed recently that your changes to projectile size have had some unattractive results. They've successfully protracted fighter vs. fighter battles... but to the point of them becoming inconclusive.

Fighters can't hit each other with their weapons so now large-scale dogfights revolve around opposing fighters dancing around each other without anyone taking damage. I've had combat between 10 of my fighters and 30 pirate fighters take over 40 minutes to come to an end.

I think light fighter weapons like PRG's and PBE's should have their projectile models restored to their original size, while heavy weapon rounds like HEPT's and EBC's should stay the same size.

Fighter groups vs. corvettes/capital ship combat is well balanced; I don't think it requires any fixing.

On a related note:

Can you increase the the size of the collision model on the Wasp missile, even if only for testing purposes?

In their current state they're remarkably inefficient when it comes to number of hits landed per missile launch. I've been toying around with missile properties with the editor to see if I can make Wasps more accurate through stat changes alone, but even after dramatically ramping up turn rates and acceleration (I'm talking several thousand RPM's and m/s^2) they still have trouble hitting anything smaller than a frigate.

And honestly I think swarm missiles could stand to be a little easier to shoot down.

The laser projectile sizes have not changed. I altered the rapid box sizes, which is a square surrounding the projectile to help weapons hit their targets. I agree though that dogfights are perhaps a little too long now. Ill attempt to find a happy medium while working on the XRM and port it back into the Cmod.

As for missiles, I think I know what the problem with this is too. I noticed that some of the missiles are not centred in their scene files. I think this is why the smaller missiles sometimes miss- the centre of the scene hits, but the missile is not in the centre. Again ill see what I can do about it for XRM and port it back into the cmod.

[A5PECT]

Neato burrito.

[bubba_000]

@paulwheeler: you probably know me from the other thread: you know, the guy with the crappy laptop

I've tried your CMOD, and good job It reduces the fps hit in battles almost to the point that it's indistinguishable.

However, as others have said, I think you weakened the fighter weapons too much.

And, if you'll excuse me bugging you with this again, would it not be possible (if it's not hard, of course) for you to release a version of the CMOD without the rebalancing, only with the new effects, for those of us who are happy with the vanilla balance but have old systems.

Thanks

[mr.WHO]

I have a possible ballance idea:
What you say about nerfing the capship AA weapons (Flak, PALC, ISR) to be less effective against fighters, so that lone capship would need fighter escort to deal with more than 5 fighters in resonable time?

Right now capships with flak don't need any fighter cover and fighter attack on them require large amount of fighters & heavy losses.

With nerfing the AA weapons fighters would be much more useful in both defensive (ship escort, would make those M7 and M1 hangars useful) and offensive (fighter attack would be bit more cost effective).

Right now if you have a M7 target, it's more cost effective to send your M7, rather than some number of fighters that will have 100% chance to take some losses and every loss is couple mil cr. loss .
This create the situation that anytime the capships are involved, my fighters are grounded at the hangar coz they are too fragile and expensive...while in reality it is opposite - you sent fighter rather than warship, coz warship is to expensive to risk it.

[A5PECT]

Flak weaponry has already been nerfed pretty dramatically.

Have you ever tried fighting against a carrier with a full fighter compliment?

You'd be lucky if your M7's flak guns take out three fighters before you run out of shields.

If you're throwing fighters at capital ships, losses are inevitable. If you don't want to lose expensive fighters, put a bunch of cheap fighters in front of them so you don't lose as much money during each engagement. There's a reason M4's are faster than M3's. If you're losing too many fighters total, then you need to use more of them. The more fighters there are, the faster the target dies, and the less time it has to whittle away your forces.

[paulwheeler]

I have always envisioned fighters as being support for the big guns rather than taking on capital ships by themselves. You can take down an m7 with fighters if you have a decent number and are prepared to lose a few, and I think that balance is about right.

Nerfing flak any more will make them a total waste of time. The whole point of flak is antifighter, so why would you nerf its ability to take down fighters?

As for fighter weapon balance, I'm playing around with upping the bullet speeds. It makes them more accurate and satisfying to fire without giving them their power back. It certainly helps with dog fighting. This is for balancing with the XRM, but I will port it back into the cmod once the XRM is released.

[paulwheeler]

And, if you'll excuse me bugging you with this again, would it not be possible (if it's not hard, of course) for you to release a version of the CMOD without the rebalancing, only with the new effects, for those of us who are happy with the vanilla balance but have old systems.

Thanks

That would be a huge amount of work, which I don't really have time for at the moment, I'm afraid.

[aka1nas]

Flak weaponry has already been nerfed pretty dramatically.

Have you ever tried fighting against a carrier with a full fighter compliment?

You'd be lucky if your M7's flak guns take out three fighters before you run out of shields.

If you're throwing fighters at capital ships, losses are inevitable. If you don't want to lose expensive fighters, put a bunch of cheap fighters in front of them so you don't lose as much money during each engagement. There's a reason M4's are faster than M3's. If you're losing too many fighters total, then you need to use more of them. The more fighters there are, the faster the target dies, and the less time it has to whittle away your forces.

Also, and IMO this applies to both vanilla and CMOD, fighters swarms vs capships usually need to liberally use heavier fighter missiles to be competitive. If you use something like CODEA and give them thunderbolts or cyclones, then can whittle down the large targets that much faster and tie up the target's turrets much better.

[bubba_000]

That would be a huge amount of work, which I don't really have time for at the moment, I'm afraid.

OK, no problem. Thanks for answering

[malanthor]

The Addon pack that adds extra terran weapons add a weapon called fusion pulse disruptor and it has stats very similiar to concussion impulse generator, but it cannot be used by any m6 just m7, in its description it also reads that it was designed specifically for frigates but no frigates can use it. Any chanse abouth dooing anything about this?

[Mizuchi]

but it cannot be used by any m6 just m7, in its description it also reads that it was designed specifically for frigates but no frigates can use it.

M6 = Corvette.
M7 = Frigate.

It's pretty much working as Paul inteded it, filtering and all.

[malanthor]

Ugh, i mixed them together. Was damm sure the frigate was the smaller of the two. Hehe, my fault. Thanks for correcting me.

[Delta417]

For some reason combat mod won't work no matter what I do. I tried uninstalling the .spk and reinstalling it, but that doesn't work. I really don't know what else to do other then completely delete the game and all saves and mods, and reinstall it...which i just spent hours doing...and still the mod doesn't work. I've gotten it to work before but for some reason it stopped working. I am attempting to run this mod alongside "Xtra-ships and stations mod,""logain industries PM stations mod,""medusa missile scripts," and "improved races mod." Any idea what it could be?

[paulwheeler]

First, I would recommend using the manual install version rather than the SPK. Its easier to control where it goes then.

Then check that you do not have another mod installed that alters TBullets or TLasers. Also check your types folder for these files.

[Halconnen]

Also, as per SRM installation instructions, make sure the order of your cat/dat files is as follows.

SRM -> SRM Addons -> CMOD -> CMOD addons.

In my case, for example, it is:
14 SRM 1.10b
15 Hull Multiplying Pack
16 SSRP
17 CMOD4.13
18 APPC Conversion Pack
19 CMOD MRM

And it loads just fine.

[Osiris454]

but it cannot be used by any m6 just m7, in its description it also reads that it was designed specifically for frigates but no frigates can use it.

M6 = Corvette.
M7 = Frigate.

It's pretty much working as Paul inteded it, filtering and all.

I knocked it's ware size down so M6's can carry it again. The only viable M6 weapon beyond the EMPC is the M/AM launcher, and I don't like being forced to use an ammunition based weapon for me to be able to do anything against another M6 or larger. There should always be a choice between a weapon with ammo or without.

Also, the bullet speed increase would be fine, but that still doesent resolve the issue of fighter fights being too long. A fighter weapon reduction of 10-15% would be more appropriate. As I have said before with this weapon reduction you are nerfing the M6's again. The only weapon that is even viable now is the CIG, and some M6's are just not able to wield it properly due to the low weapon recharge rate of some ships. This also severly handicap's the Terran M6's due to the loss of the FPD. Let's not forget that it's also extremely hard to finish off a fighter when it's being knocked around in all directions.

[mr.WHO]

Hey Paul, do you plan to update CMOD4 with sounds from XRM? I mean Gauss Cannon, PPC sounds and propably Ion Distruptor sound.

Also (both CMod4 and XRM), is there a chance for Terran non-lethal anti-shield weapon? Terrans don't have any weapon that would be useful in boarding operations. Something like Electro-magnetic pulse launcher.

[paulwheeler]

Cmod 4 already has the IonD sounds from XRM.

I will update the others as well as a couple of other tweaks like faster fighter weapon bullets.

But I want to get the XRM bugs ironed out first.

I kind of like the Boron being unique in having the only non-lethal weapons...

[epion]

Does somebody know how i may be able2use CMOD4 + Lucikes Modcollection? CMOD doesnt like it -.-'

[paulwheeler]

Does somebody know how i may be able2use CMOD4 + Lucikes Modcollection? CMOD doesnt like it -.-'

I wouldn't have thought there would be any problem with Lucikes Script Collection. What kind of problems are you having?