I've read this entire board many times about modding and while it has a lot of useful info it doesn't quite have some specific info that is really needed for 3dsmax users...
Here are some questions that I'm sure everyone that is trying to learn 3DSMAX 5 or 6 is probably looking for answers to...
When creating a mesh should you weld the vertices together and if so by how much and how to do that? Modifier or what?
When smoothing a mesh how should it be done? By modifier, auto smooth or what?
Is there a max poly limit on any mesh? If so is that why some polys don't show up in game?
How exactly does someone go about applying any texture to a mesh? Modifier or what?
If someone wanted to just use a color for their texture instead of actually using a texture how would they get the texture to illuminate say a set of windows should be glowing white so it looks like there is light coming from inside them how to do that with just color what settings?
Here are some things that I've noticed so far...
I have to attach meshes together so I can make one mesh per part but if there are too many faces in there it won't all show up in game. This is annyoing if you are just trying to keep the part count down to a minimum.
Like DeadlyDA and others have noticed you have to edit a bob file for a ship that has many turrets like m6 or higher and set the rotations right because they are corrupted when converted to bob file format why is this and has anyone found a better way to fix this besides using a hex editor? Also how hard is it to do this with a hex editor like hex workshop?
Oh and also commander j mentions that there are certain unused textures in the game but he doesn't elaborate on them, the only ones I've found so far are texture 212.jpg what are the others?
I'm in the process of upgrading my top gun mod to ver 1.5 and so this info is needed to do that. I'm currently working on the enterprise-e model that esqueaks uploaded. The original model was made by Ed Giddings and is available on scifi-meshes.com
I've changed it quite a bit and straightened it out and it looks great now but still I have many problems to fix. I've been able to get it in game but it is missing polys and the colors I'm using don't look right, some of them are not illuminated as they should be for example the warp nacelles are not lit up etc even though I set the self illumination option for the color in 3dsmax5. Also it's file size in either bod or bob format is double the esqueaks version lol this is weird because there are far less polys in it. I cut out a lot of internal junk that was not visible in game to bring it's poly count down to 70k from the 100+k it was before.
If anyone can help with these questions I think many here would appreciate it for sure I know I would:-) As soon as I get this stuff figured out I'm gonna bring some of admiraltigerclaw's fav star wars ships into X2 but I need this info to do that lol.
3DSMAX5 modelling specific info needed
Moderators: Moderators for English X Forum, Scripting / Modding Moderators
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AdmiralTigerclaw
- Posts: 2131
- Joined: Mon, 27. Dec 04, 11:49
I can't answer anything for you harlock, but I thought I'd fire something at you.
http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtop ... 4&start=15
Read down that page.
Someone has broken the shipslot limitation.
http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtop ... 4&start=15
Read down that page.
Someone has broken the shipslot limitation.
Get some Space Music:
https://samuraipenguinstudios.bandcamp.com/
https://samuraipenguinstudios.bandcamp.com/
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Harlock776
- Posts: 2261
- Joined: Wed, 9. Mar 05, 21:53
yeah
Yep they sure did and the default map limitation too hehe... I was reading that this morning it's awesome lol!!! One thing I wanna try is to make a real light source on a model in game with 3DSMAX5. I dunno if it's possible yet because I'm still trying to get the specifics down however I think that only 3DSMAX can be used to make a real light source like the front lights on the M5 ships.
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Amon RAy (RAider.EG)
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue, 4. Jan 05, 01:11
Re: 3DSMAX5 modelling specific info needed
[quote="Harlock776"]I've read this entire board many times about modding and while it has a lot of useful info it doesn't quite have some specific info that is really needed for 3dsmax users...
[/quote]
I am using 3dsMAX6, but there is no big difference. I`ll try to help you, execuse me, please, my poor english, sometimes I cant remember some desperately needed words :)...
[quote="Harlock776"]
Here are some questions that I'm sure everyone that is trying to learn 3DSMAX 5 or 6 is probably looking for answers to...
When creating a mesh should you weld the vertices together and if so by how much and how to do that? Modifier or what?
.[/quote]
In "editable mesh" format (I am using this format of object mostly.but you can use editable poly, or editable patch, if you want to) - on the rigth panel when object selected there is avaible a button "weld" with textbox. In textbox you can define in pixels - in wich area do you want to weld verticles.
You can export body without welding verticles, it will work normally. But I am always do welding. Well...some of us are catolicists, some of us are ateists...;)...
[quote="Harlock776"]
When smoothing a mesh how should it be done? By modifier, auto smooth or what?
.[/quote]
Select ALL polygons-faces and on rigth panel in part "surface properties" - there is a button "autosmooth" and textbox. autosmooth 180(this what you need to enter in textbox) - can normally made smoothing for using smoothed body in game :)
[quote="Harlock776"]
Is there a max poly limit on any mesh? If so is that why some polys don't show up in game?
.[/quote]
There is no limit. And in game too. Poly count limited only by your computer configuration)...
I recommend you to make as small polygon count as you can. In most situations there is a way to make less poly but still good looking ship.
Especially - when you are moddeling TSs - in game there is a thousands ships of this kind. So they are the most ...khm...slowdowning factor.
My model of dolphin - 2,5K poly count - boosts the FPS in boron sector from 25 to 45 :) - and it looks much better(in XT style), than originall dolphin in X2(this results may be various on different configurations of computers)
[quote="Harlock776"]
How exactly does someone go about applying any texture to a mesh? Modifier or what?
.[/quote]
press M - there is a Material editor. Each material - is a multymaterial, consists of several materials with parametres like - diffuse bitmap, self-illumination bitmap, bump bitmap.
A path to \tex\true directory of X2TT - must be added to paths in 3dmax.
To edit a wrapped texture on mesh - you must use modifers UNWRAP UWV, UWV MAP(this one you should to use instanced - directly on polygons wich you want to ;)...).
[quote="Harlock776"]
If someone wanted to just use a color for their texture instead of actually using a texture how would they get the texture to illuminate say a set of windows should be glowing white so it looks like there is light coming from inside them how to do that with just color what settings?
.[/quote]
You can add a self-illumination bitmap or just a color - it is also in Material editor.
[quote="Harlock776"]
Here are some things that I've noticed so far...
I have to attach meshes together so I can make one mesh per part but if there are too many faces in there it won't all show up in game. This is annyoing if you are just trying to keep the part count down to a minimum.
[/quote]
If you exporting a body - for \v - you should attach (not just link) - all peaces together. Linking in body just for special bodys - like "cockpit" marker and LODs ;)
[quote="Harlock776"]
Like DeadlyDA and others have noticed you have to edit a bob file for a ship that has many turrets like m6 or higher and set the rotations right because they are corrupted when converted to bob file format why is this and has anyone found a better way to fix this besides using a hex editor? Also how hard is it to do this with a hex editor like hex workshop?
.[/quote]
Its very strange. I always export scenes in bob format - and plugin works fine, without corrupting positions (...khm...in condition that I did not made a mystakes in scene by myself :)...)
I recommend you to look at the rigth bottom side - there is a button - "re-scal time". Set there length of animation to zero! Otherwise - scene will be exported with many frames(default - 30!) and in game you`ll see a corruption of turret rotation.
Or there is a mystake in Egosoft plugin for 3dsMax5? in 3dsMax6 this bug doesnt appear.
[quote="Harlock776"]
Oh and also commander j mentions that there are certain unused textures in the game but he doesn't elaborate on them, the only ones I've found so far are texture 212.jpg what are the others?
.[/quote]
I am using original textures, so I can not help you with it, sorry.
[quote="Harlock776"]
I'm in the process of upgrading my top gun mod to ver 1.5 and so this info is needed to do that. I'm currently working on the enterprise-e model that esqueaks uploaded. The original model was made by Ed Giddings and is available on scifi-meshes.com
I've changed it quite a bit and straightened it out and it looks great now but still I have many problems to fix. I've been able to get it in game but it is missing polys and the colors I'm using don't look right, some of them are not illuminated as they should be for example the warp nacelles are not lit up etc even though I set the self illumination option for the color in 3dsmax5. Also it's file size in either bod or bob format is double the esqueaks version lol this is weird because there are far less polys in it. I cut out a lot of internal junk that was not visible in game to bring it's poly count down to 70k from the 100+k it was before.
.[/quote]
If you have not a 3-4GHz cpu, I think you should limit your Capital ships on 10K poly count position. There are always a way to make more omptimisations in model. You can reduce poly count of Enterprise model to nearly 10K poly, it not hard work(and here "vertex weld" - very goood and powerful instument ;)...)...but...khm...it is need a lot of time...and after - you`ll have to reUNWRAP the textures on polygons.
I hope I had figured rigth last sentences :)...
[quote="Harlock776"]
If anyone can help with these questions I think many here would appreciate it for sure I know I would:-) As soon as I get this stuff figured out I'm gonna bring some of admiraltigerclaw's fav star wars ships into X2 but I need this info to do that lol.[/quote]
I`ll be glad to help with anything about modding I knows.
[/quote]
I am using 3dsMAX6, but there is no big difference. I`ll try to help you, execuse me, please, my poor english, sometimes I cant remember some desperately needed words :)...
[quote="Harlock776"]
Here are some questions that I'm sure everyone that is trying to learn 3DSMAX 5 or 6 is probably looking for answers to...
When creating a mesh should you weld the vertices together and if so by how much and how to do that? Modifier or what?
.[/quote]
In "editable mesh" format (I am using this format of object mostly.but you can use editable poly, or editable patch, if you want to) - on the rigth panel when object selected there is avaible a button "weld" with textbox. In textbox you can define in pixels - in wich area do you want to weld verticles.
You can export body without welding verticles, it will work normally. But I am always do welding. Well...some of us are catolicists, some of us are ateists...;)...
[quote="Harlock776"]
When smoothing a mesh how should it be done? By modifier, auto smooth or what?
.[/quote]
Select ALL polygons-faces and on rigth panel in part "surface properties" - there is a button "autosmooth" and textbox. autosmooth 180(this what you need to enter in textbox) - can normally made smoothing for using smoothed body in game :)
[quote="Harlock776"]
Is there a max poly limit on any mesh? If so is that why some polys don't show up in game?
.[/quote]
There is no limit. And in game too. Poly count limited only by your computer configuration)...
I recommend you to make as small polygon count as you can. In most situations there is a way to make less poly but still good looking ship.
Especially - when you are moddeling TSs - in game there is a thousands ships of this kind. So they are the most ...khm...slowdowning factor.
My model of dolphin - 2,5K poly count - boosts the FPS in boron sector from 25 to 45 :) - and it looks much better(in XT style), than originall dolphin in X2(this results may be various on different configurations of computers)
[quote="Harlock776"]
How exactly does someone go about applying any texture to a mesh? Modifier or what?
.[/quote]
press M - there is a Material editor. Each material - is a multymaterial, consists of several materials with parametres like - diffuse bitmap, self-illumination bitmap, bump bitmap.
A path to \tex\true directory of X2TT - must be added to paths in 3dmax.
To edit a wrapped texture on mesh - you must use modifers UNWRAP UWV, UWV MAP(this one you should to use instanced - directly on polygons wich you want to ;)...).
[quote="Harlock776"]
If someone wanted to just use a color for their texture instead of actually using a texture how would they get the texture to illuminate say a set of windows should be glowing white so it looks like there is light coming from inside them how to do that with just color what settings?
.[/quote]
You can add a self-illumination bitmap or just a color - it is also in Material editor.
[quote="Harlock776"]
Here are some things that I've noticed so far...
I have to attach meshes together so I can make one mesh per part but if there are too many faces in there it won't all show up in game. This is annyoing if you are just trying to keep the part count down to a minimum.
[/quote]
If you exporting a body - for \v - you should attach (not just link) - all peaces together. Linking in body just for special bodys - like "cockpit" marker and LODs ;)
[quote="Harlock776"]
Like DeadlyDA and others have noticed you have to edit a bob file for a ship that has many turrets like m6 or higher and set the rotations right because they are corrupted when converted to bob file format why is this and has anyone found a better way to fix this besides using a hex editor? Also how hard is it to do this with a hex editor like hex workshop?
.[/quote]
Its very strange. I always export scenes in bob format - and plugin works fine, without corrupting positions (...khm...in condition that I did not made a mystakes in scene by myself :)...)
I recommend you to look at the rigth bottom side - there is a button - "re-scal time". Set there length of animation to zero! Otherwise - scene will be exported with many frames(default - 30!) and in game you`ll see a corruption of turret rotation.
Or there is a mystake in Egosoft plugin for 3dsMax5? in 3dsMax6 this bug doesnt appear.
[quote="Harlock776"]
Oh and also commander j mentions that there are certain unused textures in the game but he doesn't elaborate on them, the only ones I've found so far are texture 212.jpg what are the others?
.[/quote]
I am using original textures, so I can not help you with it, sorry.
[quote="Harlock776"]
I'm in the process of upgrading my top gun mod to ver 1.5 and so this info is needed to do that. I'm currently working on the enterprise-e model that esqueaks uploaded. The original model was made by Ed Giddings and is available on scifi-meshes.com
I've changed it quite a bit and straightened it out and it looks great now but still I have many problems to fix. I've been able to get it in game but it is missing polys and the colors I'm using don't look right, some of them are not illuminated as they should be for example the warp nacelles are not lit up etc even though I set the self illumination option for the color in 3dsmax5. Also it's file size in either bod or bob format is double the esqueaks version lol this is weird because there are far less polys in it. I cut out a lot of internal junk that was not visible in game to bring it's poly count down to 70k from the 100+k it was before.
.[/quote]
If you have not a 3-4GHz cpu, I think you should limit your Capital ships on 10K poly count position. There are always a way to make more omptimisations in model. You can reduce poly count of Enterprise model to nearly 10K poly, it not hard work(and here "vertex weld" - very goood and powerful instument ;)...)...but...khm...it is need a lot of time...and after - you`ll have to reUNWRAP the textures on polygons.
I hope I had figured rigth last sentences :)...
[quote="Harlock776"]
If anyone can help with these questions I think many here would appreciate it for sure I know I would:-) As soon as I get this stuff figured out I'm gonna bring some of admiraltigerclaw's fav star wars ships into X2 but I need this info to do that lol.[/quote]
I`ll be glad to help with anything about modding I knows.
Last edited by Amon RAy (RAider.EG) on Wed, 13. Apr 05, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.
Sed tamen potest esse totaliter aliter.(Lat.)
or if u wanna get in deeper go to google search free 3d studio max tutorials and select one that sounds good there billions out there.. dont do what i did learn how to use it without them its took me a year and a half to work out how to modifie stuff and that... go to goole its the good way
He got owned by a sink....
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Earthpilot
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Sun, 23. Feb 03, 19:43
thx deadly.
BTW could you make a noob tutorial on how to export a mesh from 3dsmax in X2? (every step explained exactly and with screenshots.)
furthermore, could you write a tutorial about what users of other programs have to do before they give their meshes to 3dsmax users?
(naming conventions and such).
BTW could you make a noob tutorial on how to export a mesh from 3dsmax in X2? (every step explained exactly and with screenshots.)
furthermore, could you write a tutorial about what users of other programs have to do before they give their meshes to 3dsmax users?
(naming conventions and such).
![[ external image ]](http://file1.npage.de/000761/45/bilder/epships.jpg){kind=link}
Actually...yesBTW could you make a noob tutorial on how to export a mesh from 3dsmax in X2?
I started one, but unfortunately I've had to travel on business during 7 out of the past 9 weeks...and am leaving shortly for another week in France.
However, I see things settling down soon, and I'll be able to get back on it. Actually, it shouldn't take too much more to complete, as most of the key topics are already blocked out. I just need to troll through my PM and email responses to peoples queries, and see if I've missed anything important.
One thing though...when we talk about "noob" in relation to 3dMax (and X2 GFX modding)...we're still taking about a pretty clever & knowledgable sort of individual
Give me...oh...perhaps 2 weeks?
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Harlock776
- Posts: 2261
- Joined: Wed, 9. Mar 05, 21:53
Thx for the info
Thanks for the info Deadly I was putting off messing with plot linked capships and m6 until that rotation thing was solved and now I can get to it:-) Ok here are some more questions for you 3DSMAX5 experts hehe...
What is the difference between blinn and phong shading and which one is better for use in X2? I know that these are the only two types of shading supported by X2 but what is the difference? Is it just one is more recent than the other or what?
Also, I'm still not getting my colored polys to light up on their own... I made a standard texture that is oh lets say bright red and it's set up like this... Ambient color is black, diffuse color is bright red, self illumination is bright red, specular color is bright red and opacitiy is 100% yet this color is not self lit it appears as dark red until a light source is pointed at it in game.
I flew an m5 near the area with the color applied and it only lit up when I pointed the nose of the m5 at it. Do I have to add a light source just under or on the area with the color to get it to light up? That is the only thing I can think of to fix that.
I finally got all my faces to show up and here is how I did it...
Since I work from milkshape for modelling and then export to 3DSMAX with 3DS file format, I had to go back and make sure that all my faces were facing outward in milkshape and get the smoothing set right. Then when I imported into 3DSMAX it was correct but sometimes the faces won't appear backwards even though they might be when looking at them in 3DSMAX so if ya use milkshape be sure to get everything straight before exporting.
What is the difference between blinn and phong shading and which one is better for use in X2? I know that these are the only two types of shading supported by X2 but what is the difference? Is it just one is more recent than the other or what?
Also, I'm still not getting my colored polys to light up on their own... I made a standard texture that is oh lets say bright red and it's set up like this... Ambient color is black, diffuse color is bright red, self illumination is bright red, specular color is bright red and opacitiy is 100% yet this color is not self lit it appears as dark red until a light source is pointed at it in game.
I flew an m5 near the area with the color applied and it only lit up when I pointed the nose of the m5 at it. Do I have to add a light source just under or on the area with the color to get it to light up? That is the only thing I can think of to fix that.
I finally got all my faces to show up and here is how I did it...
Since I work from milkshape for modelling and then export to 3DSMAX with 3DS file format, I had to go back and make sure that all my faces were facing outward in milkshape and get the smoothing set right. Then when I imported into 3DSMAX it was correct but sometimes the faces won't appear backwards even though they might be when looking at them in 3DSMAX so if ya use milkshape be sure to get everything straight before exporting.
![[ external image ]](http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/9792/egoforum1me.jpg){kind=link}
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Harlock776
- Posts: 2261
- Joined: Wed, 9. Mar 05, 21:53
using real lighting for ships
I was able to use a real light source one a ship recently and make it a actual part for use on any ship really. I was trying to illuminate some textures with it but it didn't work out the way I wanted it to. I think I will have to use the bright parts of the default textures for things like windows and other lit up areas:-( The only problem is which option to use the texture for??? If I want to light up some windows with a bright white spot on one of the default textures which one should I use? Diffuse, ambient, self illumination, specular? Whenever I use self ullumination it only lights up when a light source is pointed at it. I wanna see the windows lit up all the time it's more realistic that way.
3DSMAX 7 is not yet supported but it will probably be supported by the next x game release sometime around christmas I think.
3DSMAX 7 is not yet supported but it will probably be supported by the next x game release sometime around christmas I think.
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Harlock776
- Posts: 2261
- Joined: Wed, 9. Mar 05, 21:53
part name comments
Here is something to think about when placing turrets and guns on m6 or higher ships... How to make a comment in the name of a part? For example a turret part is called 18801_3 so it's the third cockpit in the scene. It's guns are called 18802_3 but how to make a comment in the name like 18802_3 turret gun 02???? I don't think there is supposed to be anything written after the _1 portion??? I know how to do this in notepad but not in 3DSMAX. Is there a special character for this like / or : or -?????