After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

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Darkhan
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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by Darkhan » Mon, 22. Apr 24, 00:00

If I have to say one thing that is a late-game bummer for myself is all the micro-management that is still required at that level.
It works well early / mid game, but becomes a chore late game

In my current one which is definitely late game, I have over 100 fleets, yet no way to organise it better than a naming convention for myself.
Example:
- Mining
- Patrol
- Military
- Personal
- Supression
etc.

Same idea for stations really.
- Production
- Defense
- Illegals

So getting a way to have fleets under Specific role groups would be great. Maybe a control ship that does not assign orders to subordinate fleets could fill that need

Station build time is also a bit of a pet peeve. Since my big stations take over a day in SETA to build, that's a bit like watching paint dry.

And please bring back unfocused jumps as an alternative to ventures. I have no interest in doing those or anything multiplayer. That means either a lot of grinding or just plain cheating.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by alt3rn1ty » Mon, 22. Apr 24, 01:12

I'm a bit different, and I dont think Egosoft can accomodate my needs because it goes against most other fans needs of the game.

I dont want wars, I work towards peace with every faction, so that I can enjoy occasional dog fights on a less than epic scale.

My ideal mission (randomly repeatable), is a mission to take out a pirate/enemy (for whatever reason), who has a decent corvette/destroyer plus a few really good fighters/corvette as escort.

Nothing major, but middle sized battles that do not tax a machine with my spec (see signature), and I can keep at minimum an FPS of at least 60 for a smooth if slightly challenging dog fight. Forever after repeatable variations of similar scenarios', in different randomly offered missions.

I do like occasional awesome battles, but only so long as they dont turn the game into a slide show at 10 FPS.

Basicly I like to get to a scenario where all the main missions are ccomplete, I can produce what I want (without personally producing too much that the game slows down), and I can comfortably go out and take on random missions which do not tax my machine spec.
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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by alexthespaniard » Mon, 22. Apr 24, 09:25

TroubledRabbit wrote:
Sun, 21. Apr 24, 18:13
1. exploration - a big screaming hole inside the game design as a whole.
2. I do 'late game' only once or maybe twice in the Xs. It's just boring. I have never had PHQ in the X3 because level of grind necessary for archiving it was annoying. My best memories from X3FL (I am often returning to this game thanks for the cycrow work) are these with small roaming flotilla (minicarriers and small armored Ts are awesome) which is not possible in X4 even with Guppy involved - it's still too big, besides fish-design is nice but not my style. Just as 'minning expeditions' are not possible also (X3 TL could pack a few miners and some fighters, jump into the rich sector, load a loads of ore, pack this back and return with the bounty - this is not possible in X4, besides: pointless - there is everything in abundance almost everywhere)

Ofc you can completely ignore everything and try to play X4 that way, including PHQ Boso and his antiques (if you do not care about the mods and 'research') but you hit the wall pretty quickly. Tiny ship rooster, repetitive designs etc. And this leads to the 'there is a mod for that' approach, but there are things which mods cannot do (or they breaks) ofc.
Here i see a really good point totally agree.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by Submarine » Mon, 22. Apr 24, 11:25

alt3rn1ty wrote:
Mon, 22. Apr 24, 01:12
I'm a bit different, and I dont think Egosoft can accomodate my needs because it goes against most other fans needs of the game.

I dont want wars, I work towards peace with every faction, so that I can enjoy occasional dog fights on a less than epic scale.

My ideal mission (randomly repeatable), is a mission to take out a pirate/enemy (for whatever reason), who has a decent corvette/destroyer plus a few really good fighters/corvette as escort.

Nothing major, but middle sized battles that do not tax a machine with my spec (see signature), and I can keep at minimum an FPS of at least 60 for a smooth if slightly challenging dog fight. Forever after repeatable variations of similar scenarios', in different randomly offered missions.

I do like occasional awesome battles, but only so long as they dont turn the game into a slide show at 10 FPS.

Basicly I like to get to a scenario where all the main missions are ccomplete, I can produce what I want (without personally producing too much that the game slows down), and I can comfortably go out and take on random missions which do not tax my machine spec.
I also play like this, worth pointing out this is the kind of thing I mean by squad play. Not a massive empire killing fleet, just an odd job fleet.

IMHO squad play is an inevitable outcome of expanding single ship play, and capping the odd pirate, so it should be a well honed experience but is not.

Where it goes wrong for me is if you play squad battles against a near equal opponent then losses can vary from 50% of your squad if boost is allowed, to zero losses if it is not. If you replay the same battle using both methods it becomes obvious boost is not working. So you have to micro it and that becomes unplayable because there is no way to set defaults and every single autogenerated attack order has to be adjusted by hand to disallow boost.

There should be a global switch to manage that doctrine. It is self evident and yet mystifyingly has not been added. Which is why I stopped playing and stopped buying DLCs, because I am disillusioned and disappointed by the outcome of egosoft's development priorities and I wont touch the game unless I see signs of intelligent development oversight. Its just not worth the candle for me as a player.

I keep commenting as I have a long standing association with beta testing X games but my patience with X4 has broken because of this. I believe a true friend should have the courage to tell you where you are going wrong.
bloop

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by alexthespaniard » Mon, 22. Apr 24, 11:56

Submarine wrote:
Mon, 22. Apr 24, 11:25
alt3rn1ty wrote:
Mon, 22. Apr 24, 01:12
I'm a bit different, and I dont think Egosoft can accomodate my needs because it goes against most other fans needs of the game.

I dont want wars, I work towards peace with every faction, so that I can enjoy occasional dog fights on a less than epic scale.

My ideal mission (randomly repeatable), is a mission to take out a pirate/enemy (for whatever reason), who has a decent corvette/destroyer plus a few really good fighters/corvette as escort.

Nothing major, but middle sized battles that do not tax a machine with my spec (see signature), and I can keep at minimum an FPS of at least 60 for a smooth if slightly challenging dog fight. Forever after repeatable variations of similar scenarios', in different randomly offered missions.

I do like occasional awesome battles, but only so long as they dont turn the game into a slide show at 10 FPS.

Basicly I like to get to a scenario where all the main missions are ccomplete, I can produce what I want (without personally producing too much that the game slows down), and I can comfortably go out and take on random missions which do not tax my machine spec.
I also play like this, worth pointing out this is the kind of thing I mean by squad play. Not a massive empire killing fleet, just an odd job fleet.

IMHO squad play is an inevitable outcome of expanding single ship play, and capping the odd pirate, so it should be a well honed experience but is not.

Where it goes wrong for me is if you play squad battles against a near equal opponent then losses can vary from 50% of your squad if boost is allowed, to zero losses if it is not. If you replay the same battle using both methods it becomes obvious boost is not working. So you have to micro it and that becomes unplayable because there is no way to set defaults and every single autogenerated attack order has to be adjusted by hand to disallow boost.

There should be a global switch to manage that doctrine. It is self evident and yet mystifyingly has not been added. Which is why I stopped playing and stopped buying DLCs, because I am disillusioned and disappointed by the outcome of egosoft's development priorities and I wont touch the game unless I see signs of intelligent development oversight. Its just not worth the candle for me as a player.

I keep commenting as I have a long standing association with beta testing X games but my patience with X4 has broken because of this. I believe a true friend should have the courage to tell you where you are going wrong.
Also, it would be fun to be able to participate as a s or ship M in dynamic missions where you provide support for an attack.
I think it would be fun to earn good money from it, in proportion to the targets taken down.
I believe that if the IA organized the attacks by issuing a call for two types of missions: destroy fleet and destroy station, the way the AI behaves would improve significantly. Mount & Blade: Bannerlord has a similar system and it works awsome.

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ballti
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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by ballti » Mon, 22. Apr 24, 12:57

Placebo alternative is supporting HOP whit ships and have some fight whit them, not bad wey to test gear, ships etc.
Wargasm

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by Manawydn » Mon, 22. Apr 24, 20:20

Having a crisis that is built and not spawned on top of your assets.

Rework of the mission system to be more clear in it's requirements, objectives, and rewards including better rewards for missions.

Accessible purple shipmods through the mission system in a way that is clear to understand (mission briefing rework)

Accessible and reusable paint mods; most of them are locked behind non-existent ventures, vague guild missions that aren't clear on the objectives you need to accomplish and/or rewards given.

Custom Tabs so the player can effectively organize incredibly large empires once they scale themselves beyond the standard faction level of assets.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by alexthespaniard » Tue, 30. Apr 24, 09:58

Manawydn wrote:
Mon, 22. Apr 24, 20:20
Having a crisis that is built and not spawned on top of your assets.

Rework of the mission system to be more clear in it's requirements, objectives, and rewards including better rewards for missions.

Accessible purple shipmods through the mission system in a way that is clear to understand (mission briefing rework)

Accessible and reusable paint mods; most of them are locked behind non-existent ventures, vague guild missions that aren't clear on the objectives you need to accomplish and/or rewards given.

Custom Tabs so the player can effectively organize incredibly large empires once they scale themselves beyond the standard faction level of assets.
You mean the KK?

what about teleportation with energy cells of XL fleets?

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by Manawydn » Tue, 30. Apr 24, 15:28

alexthespaniard wrote:
Tue, 30. Apr 24, 09:58
Manawydn wrote:
Mon, 22. Apr 24, 20:20
Having a crisis that is built and not spawned on top of your assets.

Rework of the mission system to be more clear in it's requirements, objectives, and rewards including better rewards for missions.

Accessible purple shipmods through the mission system in a way that is clear to understand (mission briefing rework)

Accessible and reusable paint mods; most of them are locked behind non-existent ventures, vague guild missions that aren't clear on the objectives you need to accomplish and/or rewards given.

Custom Tabs so the player can effectively organize incredibly large empires once they scale themselves beyond the standard faction level of assets.
You mean the KK?

what about teleportation with energy cells of XL fleets?

Jumpdrives are a lost technology in the X4 universe with the exception of the Khaak, and aparently the Xenon. As far as I'm aware, Xenon never had point-to-point jumpdrives either. In any case, the feedback is not just from me, and is quite unanimous - Spawning fleets on top of player assets is immersion breaking, feels gimmickey, and most of all, is not a fun mechanic to interact with. Especially when the Khaak destroyer will one-shot your assets in low attention.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by Omni-Orb » Sun, 5. May 24, 13:16

As a combat player that doesn't focus on empire management. I would enjoy the game more late game if the xenon where endless, for example getting reinforcements from planets or a one way jump gate/accelerator. Like for example more like the police in GTA, kind of endless. As long as it is done tactically. And there is several tactical solutions to it.
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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by BigBANGtheory » Sun, 5. May 24, 13:56

I think from my perspective I'd like the late game to play out as follows:

1. I grow to a point where I become the strongest faction able to take sectors and defeat other factions...
2. Some existential threat now see's me as become a risk to them
3. Threat now targets me
4. I am forced to take extraordinary measures to defend my assets
5. I seek allies among the other factions and help them to grow
6. We work to seal the threat or I'm simply reduced to early game conditions, 'put back in my box' giving me pause to think about how to expand or prepare better next time

I guess a little like the Babylon5 story arc where vastly superior factions heavily influence the progression of event once they take notice of you

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by taztaz502 » Sun, 5. May 24, 15:01

Only thing they can do for me really is fix the Ai so it functions as expected and seems less robotic.

In X5 i hope they fix the economy, as a player i don't want to build 2-3 production modules and saturate the demand for those wares, like what is the point?

E.g. Lets say i want to roleplay as a food trader with a food factory... you can't because there is no demand.

X3 had a far better economy, especially with mods like litcubes universe, you could build a factory and not even put a dent in the demand.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by Flippi » Sun, 5. May 24, 17:19

I think from my perspective I'd like the late game to play out as follows:

1. I grow to a point where I become the strongest faction able to take sectors and defeat other factions...
2. Some existential threat now see's me as become a risk to them
3. Threat now targets me
4. I am forced to take extraordinary measures to defend my assets
5. I seek allies among the other factions and help them to grow
6. We work to seal the threat or I'm simply reduced to early game conditions, 'put back in my box' giving me pause to think about how to expand or prepare better next time
You just described StarSector's Colony Crisis System. Kinda. Because that is kinda how it works over there in the vanilla game (not even talking about mods here).


To keep it short, I'll give a very brief description on how StarSector added these crises into the game:


-You play the game, earn money, explore the Sector, and get ships.

-Once you have the funds, you start founding a colony.

-You now have a crisis meter which will fill up over time. You will see now which factions have an interest in you and why.

-Not every faction immediately has an interest in you. Some factions will only antagonise you under very specific circumstances. Others, like pirates, are aggressive early on.

-Destroying (any) hostile ship or ships associated with any crisis will lower your score, delaying the crisis. But you will suffer a temporary Blowback penalty that increases your gain later on. (Short term solution to long term problem)

-Crisis points gain is capped at a certain value. Building defense structures like Military bases or High Commands (StarSector's colony buildings and industries) can lower your overall increase of crisis points. But they won't stop them completely. They also don't stack.

-You reach a certain point on the crisis meter, receiving a warning that things are about to go down south soon. You will also see what you can do to delay the crisis, defeat them or avoid them entirely.

-The player can use diplomatic or military means to delay or prevent the crisis from happening at all. The options available depend on the faction and are displayed on the crisis meter warning.

-You reach the specified threshold that was displayed on the crisis meter. Now an action will be performed by one of the factions having an interest in you (most likely the one having the highest interest due to your actions).

-Entire fleets will now be built and you get a message telling you how long it will take until the fleets are assembled and how long it will roughly take until they arrive. Their origin, target location, goals and number of fleets are also clearly displayed, telling the player what to expect.

-The goals of these fleets can vary wildly. From hostile pirates that want to raid your colony, to Blockade fleets that aren't hostile by themselves, but disruptive to your overall operations. There can be mercenaries raiding and destroying your trade ships, bounty hunters hunting you down specifically. Or an extermination fleet that wants to let your colonies burn because you started to produce things more advanced than a toaster. (I'm looking at you, Luddic Pathers!)

-Fighting these fleets won't cost you (much) reputation. You can merrily fight them without ending up in a total war (X4 could learn from this definitely). There are some specific exceptions.

-Defeating these fleets in battle will lower the crisis meter, and also make the faction stop their shenanigans in most cases for the rest of the game. You may also receive certain rewards for doing so.

-Choosing other options might only delay the crisis, or make them get their way like you having to pay tribute or tithes, not just once but for as long as you let such a deal exist.

-The crisis meter is global for all factions. Only one crisis can be active at a time. You won't be overrun by several events triggering at the same time.


That's about it. I could write a lot more, or link to some StarSector wiki that can explain the crisis mechanic in more detail and much better than me. But this should be the gist of it. I also add that each faction has a specific set of triggers before they get active, Some can be avoided quite easily, while others are unavoidable. But then again, you do have options on how to solve them.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by alexthespaniard » Wed, 8. May 24, 10:48

Flippi wrote:
Sun, 5. May 24, 17:19
I think from my perspective I'd like the late game to play out as follows:

1. I grow to a point where I become the strongest faction able to take sectors and defeat other factions...
2. Some existential threat now see's me as become a risk to them
3. Threat now targets me
4. I am forced to take extraordinary measures to defend my assets
5. I seek allies among the other factions and help them to grow
6. We work to seal the threat or I'm simply reduced to early game conditions, 'put back in my box' giving me pause to think about how to expand or prepare better next time
You just described StarSector's Colony Crisis System. Kinda. Because that is kinda how it works over there in the vanilla game (not even talking about mods here).


To keep it short, I'll give a very brief description on how StarSector added these crises into the game:


-You play the game, earn money, explore the Sector, and get ships.

-Once you have the funds, you start founding a colony.




-You now have a crisis meter which will fill up over time. You will see now which factions have an interest in you and why.

-Not every faction immediately has an interest in you. Some factions will only antagonise you under very specific circumstances. Others, like pirates, are aggressive early on.

-Destroying (any) hostile ship or ships associated with any crisis will lower your score, delaying the crisis. But you will suffer a temporary Blowback penalty that increases your gain later on. (Short term solution to long term problem)

-Crisis points gain is capped at a certain value. Building defense structures like Military bases or High Commands (StarSector's colony buildings and industries) can lower your overall increase of crisis points. But they won't stop them completely. They also don't stack.

-You reach a certain point on the crisis meter, receiving a warning that things are about to go down south soon. You will also see what you can do to delay the crisis, defeat them or avoid them entirely.

-The player can use diplomatic or military means to delay or prevent the crisis from happening at all. The options available depend on the faction and are displayed on the crisis meter warning.

-You reach the specified threshold that was displayed on the crisis meter. Now an action will be performed by one of the factions having an interest in you (most likely the one having the highest interest due to your actions).

-Entire fleets will now be built and you get a message telling you how long it will take until the fleets are assembled and how long it will roughly take until they arrive. Their origin, target location, goals and number of fleets are also clearly displayed, telling the player what to expect.

-The goals of these fleets can vary wildly. From hostile pirates that want to raid your colony, to Blockade fleets that aren't hostile by themselves, but disruptive to your overall operations. There can be mercenaries raiding and destroying your trade ships, bounty hunters hunting you down specifically. Or an extermination fleet that wants to let your colonies burn because you started to produce things more advanced than a toaster. (I'm looking at you, Luddic Pathers!)

-Fighting these fleets won't cost you (much) reputation. You can merrily fight them without ending up in a total war (X4 could learn from this definitely). There are some specific exceptions.

-Defeating these fleets in battle will lower the crisis meter, and also make the faction stop their shenanigans in most cases for the rest of the game. You may also receive certain rewards for doing so.

-Choosing other options might only delay the crisis, or make them get their way like you having to pay tribute or tithes, not just once but for as long as you let such a deal exist.

-The crisis meter is global for all factions. Only one crisis can be active at a time. You won't be overrun by several events triggering at the same time.


That's about it. I could write a lot more, or link to some StarSector wiki that can explain the crisis mechanic in more detail and much better than me. But this should be the gist of it. I also add that each faction has a specific set of triggers before they get active, Some can be avoided quite easily, while others are unavoidable. But then again, you do have options on how to solve them.
Many of the solutions don't have a difficult implementation in terms of programing i hope they can lisen some of this. The immersion will be much deeper.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by gbjbaanb » Wed, 8. May 24, 19:00

All the responses so far point to one factor: the game is too easy.

I mean, once you have a shipyard you have won, last game I ended up with a dozen sectors under my control and it weas trivial to build out a new defence platform and remove xenon from a sector.

What this suggests is that the sectors are too small, the factions are too insignificant relative to the player. So ideally I would like to see the factions become much more powerful and the game map allow for more player action in the intervening spaces. I think a lot of players like the Terrans because of the solar system sectors, there's no real reason why the other factions cannot have a prime set of sectors like that, add a few colonies with their subsectors and then add a heap of unowned, lawless sectors between then. If all these systems were more fully fledged then the game can become less of a player-focussed "rebuild a trash economy" as they would be much more self sufficient. The player gets to interact with these areas and tries to make it big with whatever living you can get. The days of building a station and then watch the millions of credits roll in go away, you'd have to really find a niche to exploit and grind your way up that way.

The game should be rebalanced so that the majority of sectors are self-sufficient but are mostly comprised of the base resources (and add more of these, or more options for them so 1st stage refined goods can be sold to more than just 1 sink - eg ore to refined metal to hull plate fabs only, get that metal used elsewhere too). Then make the higher tech stuff increasingly expensive and difficult to obtain so its a challenge to get the more profitable stuff but it guides the player to build the basic resource chains that are needed for the higher tech production.

Whilst this doesn't fix the endgame, it make the midgame longer and more enjoyable. Then, by the time the player has everything and can field fleets, the endgame can become more of a build your own sector and colony, pushing out xenon or pirates turning it into an extended terraforming-type game alongside buidling out a functioning economy that is constantly under threat requiring you to build your stations, fight the pirates, explore where their bases are, and juggle all this at the same time. I imagine such would be tricky to balance, but that's where the end-game should be. Just building isn't enough, just trading into a resource sink isn't enough, just fighting a crisis isn't enough, it has to be all 4 of the X themes simultaneously to be really good.

So I described early, mid and end game above - ultimately it really comes down to how small you are in the game world though, as taztaz502 said, the production now is way too high. X3 had a much better player economy (even though I love the new wares abstractions, the balance is geared for easy progress). The player should be a very small cog in the universe and those base pyramid wares should be expanded to be more important to provide than the cool high-tech stuff.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by temetvince » Sat, 11. May 24, 09:19

Specific Desired Changes:
  • Implementing a fleet auto-resupply feature akin to Player Restock Subordinates feels indispensable for me, particularly in the late game. It stands as the sole mod I find truly essential.
  • Additionally, I propose enhancing the Patrol function for more strategic use, ideally enabling rapid response within a single sector. While the Reaction Force mod serves a purpose, its complexity sometimes proves cumbersome. (Note: I haven't tested the v7 beta patrol command yet.)
General Reflections:
In terms of broader enhancements for the endgame, I suggest drawing inspiration from the x3ap Litcube mods:
  • Litcube's Universe introduced an early/mid-game antagonist in the form of Phanon and an endgame adversary with the OCV.
  • Mayhem 2 incorporated a nemesis system that propelled players into conflict to progress the narrative. It also transformed the OCV from a slow-growing threat into a daily menace targeting player sectors with escalating force.
  • While I lack intimate knowledge of Mayhem 3/Zero Hour/Renegades, its focus on a real economy and AI empire dynamics offers potential insights.
It seems the crisis in v7 might follow the nemesis route of Mayhem 2, though I've yet to test it. Another potential improvement could involve introducing roaming jobs specifically aimed at targeting player stations when they have severe negative reputation with an AI faction, which would fill a similar void that Phanon filled in LU combined with the random attacks of the OCV in Mayhem 2. However, considering the occasional hysteria concerning the impact of the OCV in LU, it's evident that player feedback and varied playstyles should inform any significant changes. We are far from going this route with X4, considering the reduction in Xenon strength in recent years (my perception only). Even beefing them back up to previous levels could result in some player pushback.

X+1 Universe Concept:
A multiplayer metawar stands out as a significant opportunity, where universes could contribute to an AI conflict or engage in strategic battles on a 2D map, abstracting player contributions. This could involve financial support, donating ships, dedicating in-game production to unlock advancements, or undertaking missions with meta-war consequences. For instance, players could collectively combat the xenon threat or support struggling AI factions. Balancing player contributions would be crucial for ensuring meaningful participation and enjoyment.

This concept could extend to player-created alliances akin to corporations in Eve Online, though this thought represents a more extreme end of the spectrum! :)

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by SparvieroGed » Mon, 13. May 24, 02:26

Just my point of view.

More adventures, less 4x.

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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by SirLosealot » Mon, 13. May 24, 16:57

I would enjoy the end game more if the difficulty gradually increases throughout the game as the player is getting stronger/richer.

If I was a new player, I would struggle in the beginning regarding everything (i.e mining, trading, building, combat...) because I did not know anything. But after I knew about the mechanics, things became very easy. So image a graph where the difficulty shoots up drastically in the beginning but also falls down just as fast after you figured things out. And that is if you are a new player. An experience player starting a new playthrough would have an even easier/quicker start.

What I want is that the difficulty graph won't fall off even in the late game. How to do that? I am not sure. But looking at the crisis in 7.0 beta, I think instead of having a crisis so sudden and only for the player (this is like the civil war mechanic in Total War series which I don't like because it is so artificial), all the factions would be buffed slowly throughout the game. For example, the upper limit of how many ships they can build slowly increases based on a certain milestone of the player (i.e value of player's asset). This way, new player won't be overwhelmed at the beginning while powerful player will have to face a chaotic galaxy where other factions can build bigger fleets and have bigger war thus retain some sense of entertainment late game since there is not much to do in the late game but waging war against somebody.

Ageansnowfly
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu, 6. May 04, 12:55
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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by Ageansnowfly » Mon, 13. May 24, 17:06

Hi, there is a mod Tradestation Economy fix. İt has a fill and drain mechanic for the wharf's shipyards equipment docks and tradestations. with the fill option activated, there will be a never-ending xenon army. unfortunately, the mod doesn't work with 6.20

SpaceCadet11864
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue, 4. Dec 18, 02:14
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Re: After playing 1000 hours and reviewing the Egosoft poll, how would you enjoy the late game more?

Post by SpaceCadet11864 » Mon, 13. May 24, 23:51

As I write this I have close to 2900 hours (not even modded) of this game. In fact, I've played X4 more than I've played any other game in my library, it's hands-down my most favorite game of all time. I've played dozens of new games, not even budgeted, just brand new from scratch because start a new game when I get to the late game. The save files get larger and larger, and the game performance starts to drop, and also the npc factions just build more and more stations. The station spam really gets bad sometimes.

HOWEVER, there are a few things that would entice me to stay in the late game and not start a new game:

1. The ability to spawn off new factions.
Something as simple as talking to a station manager, and telling them you'd like to grant them independence or something. Then it spawns a new npc faction that will have its own economy and goals, the goals it has could be shaped by the player. I would want to be able to set its relations with other factions and set its style (pirate, trader, warmonger, etc) - but it would have to make sense. So just configuring it would not be enough, it would need to either mirror what the player has at present, or some mission chains would need to be done to get them to behave a certain way before you part them. Something more engaging then just using a menu to configure.

A loyalty system of some sort would be interesting, where you risk losing staff, stations, and ships based on something other than losing ships in combat alone. Could still be save-scum friendly so those who just want to win all the time won't have to worry.

2. Clandestine operations
Getting a faction such as the Yaki, Vig, or SCA to do your dirty work for you, pay them a ton of credits to get them to attack a station. Make it so you have to supply the ships and the personnel, perhaps they'll use some of their own troops, but if you want them to field a large fleet you'll have to supply them yourself. You get plausible deniability and they do some dirty work for you. It would cost a lot of credits and resources.

3. More ways to reshape the politics of the gate network
We have a few questlines that can reshape the politics, but not even for all factions. I'd love to see if there could be more done here, especially with the Teladi. Though there could be more with Argon and Antigone. I'd like sometihng less static and more dynamic that has a large impact, something that can happen if "all conditions are just right" - causing a faction to break up, or causing a rebellion or something. It would be late game because the conditions for it to happen would make it such.

4. Technology and Research
A tech tree for each faction, where they start producing more advanced weapons and ships. Late game technology.

5. Crisis Events
Yeah I know we are getting a Xenon/Khaak one, but I think it needs to be reworked. Other than that there could be different ones like a plague or another antagonistic faction spawns. Drawing inspiration from other games like Star Traders: Frontiers. Hell, could even be a supernova is coming to wipe out a sector and you have to help evacuate a ton of people, then after supernova ends it transforms into a sector with different resources. Jump-gates switching off or re-arranging would be interesting, especially if done in a way where the player has agency over how they are re-arranged, and is opt-in. Something that gives the player the opportunity to re-arrange the network to their liking, but they can't do that until they initiate a crisis that causes random ones to shut off and re-arrange, making it a high-risk situation.

Eras like in STF would be cool. Where certain story events occur but are time-based only, but if you play the game long enough in a single save you'd eventually experience them all. THis could benefit long play and short play too.

Also I know some of these could be mid-game as well, but I think #1 and #5 at least should be gated to late -game somehow.

I generally dont play with mods, I like to enjoy a game as developers intended and I find most mods in a lot of games just ruin the balance and make games way too easy. way too many "cheat" mods out there masquerading as "QOL"

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