Please rebalance the Terran ships and turrets

[Caedes91]

The Terrans are my favourite faction by far. I really like the aspect, that humans for once are not the primitive underdogs only winning through contrivances, but are actually advanced. No other game has this spin on humans.

So it makes no sense, that Terrans scrapped all ATF ships in the time between X3 and X4. Much time has passed ingame and the Terrans have degressed instead of advanced. Even if the USC and ATF merged into the Protectorate, you don't throw away half your ship designs. And the servicable roster instead of the overdesigned instead.

Now terran ships look like some luxury taxis, far from usable military ships. They are supposedly intended to defend you from humanities' scourge, the Xenon. The only logical looking ships are Terran Syn and Asgard. Guess from who they descended from:

Spoiler: ATF

Lorewise, Terrans are supposed to be superior, but it is not reflected in this game. They don't even get a plasma equivalent.
Keep in mind, that I'm not asking for just another plasma reuse. It's good, that they have a unique weapon, but their unique Terran L-bolt are just smaller main guns. To be viable and lore accurate, they need to have thrice the damage and about 15-20km range. Double the rate of fire and projectile speed.

But worst offender are the copy paste m-turrets: They could have proton barrage turrets, terran pulse turrets and meson beam turrets. Why even then display High power weaponry in the ship building menu at all.
Instead we get basegame turrets with different coat of paint and worse tracking.
Why don't they have Mk2 or Mk3 turrets?

Terran capital ships in general have too few turrets and hold too few missiles. Nobody in their right mind would build combat ships like that. Look at the wasted and pirate-friendly hull space.
Asgard and Syn only have two groups of M-turrets? Seriously? This needs to be fixed.
And people here complain about easy boarding...Have a guess to why. There is just no need to waste time destroying turrets, that are non-existent to begin with.

Rapier and Nimcha look just out there. Again, like civilian hobby yachts and not something a nation would field.
Kukri is just useless for the asking price. Slow, one shield and 3 weapons. Never thought I would say that, but we have a fighter, which is even more worthless than a Buzzard. Made by a pacifistic trade faction. Make it have 3 shields, two engines and 4 weapon slots. Then it is worthy of being called the main fighter of the Terran protectorate. And make it symmetrical. Basic physical principle: The line of thrust needs to align with the center of mass.
Pretty pathetic, that the Segaris pioneers offer a better and prettier fighter in the Takoba.

Gladius looks like a random hobby glider and is slow like a turtle. On fighters, one or more shields don't really matter.
Falx looks too much like the split cobra and doesn't deserve the name "frigate". 6 engines and still too slow and cumbersome.
The Katana looks deceivingly sleek, but handles like a whale.
Jian is flimsy asset flip of the baldric and tops off the useless gunboats, because Terran turrets and turrets in general suck.

Bolos look like Xenon ships and don't fit the human aesthetics at all.
The Tokyo needs a redesign to actually reflect its fighter capacity and lauch tubes. It's just sad to see a bunch of fighters scramble and crash into the small side openings Especially with the Gladius oversized "wings". Please take a look at Elite dangerous and Cod Infinite warfare for realistic fighter and ship designs.
Kyushu is just a 1 to 1 copy of the basegame builder.

Their only good points are superior engines, MK3 shields and Terran pulse and proton barrage. Sadly that's it.

If you don't plan to do it yourself, at least get modders on board or remove the modding restriction with the "modified" tag.

[apm0SPE]

Kinda agree and disagree with the OP since the asgard is already kinda of OP in the OOS.

I believe the Ter large ship should be superior to the CW large ship but less cost-efficiency, say 2x combat capability(win on 1 to 1, lost on 1 v 3, 1 v 2 depends on the situation) but 2-3x cost in raw materials and 5x time to produce, which make them strong but not suitable for En mass. Terran was self-isolated in a single system lore-wise and they need to be careful about their investment. For small ship, I kinda okay with the current meta.

In 6.00 beta, All race start to get plasma on their station, which gives K and Is a sweet time when they try to engage those stations. Terrans don't have the equivalent, which is a bit awkward. I think bringing back the PSP could be a good idea and match the slow-but-heavy hitting "Terran philosophy".

Beside, gravitational weapon (PSP =Point Singularity Projector) is much much more high-tech than big giant laser. It is kinda sad that the Terran have such a technology retrogression and Xenon still keep those technologies (since its L turret is gravitational weaponry)

[mr.WHO]

Despite being Terran fanboy, I'm bit on the fence in regards to Terrans having plasma analog.

Large Terran weapons are ballanced OK, but to being closer to having Plasma analog, it could do well, if Large Bolt turret have a bit longer range and bit longer burst.

Medium turrets reballance is a must - I wanted to see those terran super fast pulse, powerful meson and bolt like on their fighters weapons

For Terran S/M weapons, we would either need another, lighther heavy weapon, or rebalance Meson to be more practical both for player and AI - currently it overheat too fast and AI has problems hitting anything smaller than a destroyer - look at Shuulo VRO to see how you can easily fix Meson to be much more practical.

[InDigital]

I think Meson is the most dangerous weapon in the universe but AI just does not know how to use it. Also we don't have meson turrets.
So Argon plasma is the one only way for now.

[Graaf]

If they could balance some of those Argon weapons. I can build an extremely well defended and shielded megastation/shipyard with only using Energy Cells, Claytronics and Hull Plating. Or I can build a small defense platform using any other non-Terran race's weaponry, which will never be completed due to the required Advanced Electronics, Shield & Weapon Component.

Argon weaponry is far too overpowered in that way.

[Imperial Good]

It is my understanding that Terrans are meant to suffer from massive bureaucratic inefficiency. Many of the higher up people prefer to strut their superiority around rather than get things done efficiently. This is to such an extent that some wreckage from the Torus still remains in orbit of Earth, constantly reminding its people of the failures of its government to protect them and get things done.

Terran capital ships in general have too few turrets and hold too few missiles. Nobody in their right mind would build combat ships like that. Look at the wasted and pirate-friendly hull space.
Asgard and Syn only have two groups of M-turrets? Seriously? This needs to be fixed.

Asgard has 16 L turrets which are worth a lot more than M turrets. Since its XL battery is already god mode against bigger targets, it has no need to put siege turrets in any of those L slots so can focus entirely on anti-fighter. For this reason Asguard is extremely good at shooting down small ships, especially given how effective TER L Pulse Laser turrets are the job. Syn is in a similar situation, since it has 3 TER L batteries which are a lot stronger than the L batteries of other factions so does not need siege turrets to perform well and can instead have 8 L turrets focusing on anti-fighter.

This is why TER does not have a L Plasma Turret equivalent. They do not need one as their ships already are extremely good at anti-capital damage.

And people here complain about easy boarding...Have a guess to why. There is just no need to waste time destroying turrets, that are non-existent to begin with.

The issue is that the boarding mechanic is just broken. Trying to board an Asguard should almost always fail, with S ship wings shooting up the pods attached to the hull and an elite 5 star combat crew mincing inexperienced marines. Instead the reality is that the ship is helpless once the pods land as no amount of allied help can save it, even if it was not parked alone in Xenon space without any sign of reinforcements, and its low skilled crew get slaughtered by even moderately trained marines.

[jlehtone]

It is my understanding that Terrans are meant to suffer from massive bureaucratic inefficiency. Many of the higher up people prefer to strut their superiority around rather than get things done efficiently.

This is why TER does not have a L Plasma Turret equivalent. They do not need one as their ships already are extremely good at anti-capital damage.

If the thing you have looks sufficient for all you do know, the JumpGate network looks dead for good, and you have "internal affairs" to handle, then where do you put the tax-payers money?


Are Terrans truly technologically advanced? Or do they just believe that they are and have told the same tall tale to everyone? Maybe they really have Betamax, while Commonwealth of Planet have achieved only VHS. Somehow better?

[KextV8]

Are Terrans truly technologically advanced? Or do they just believe that they are and have told the same tall tale to everyone? Maybe they really have Betamax, while Commonwealth of Planet have achieved only VHS. Somehow better?

I mean, weren't the Terrans some of the first to build their own acceleration gates while everyone else was stuck using the warp gates left by someone else? They also kinda created the Xenon. And of course their manufacturing process is extremely elegant and efficient. All evidence to date points to Terrans being more technologically advanced than the other factions in the game.

[mr.WHO]

The problem with Terrans is that they are very unflexible in regards to heavy firepower.

They don't have torpedos, Mesons are weird and cost multi-milion per S/M ship, so your only options is Osaka main batteries and then grind for rep and blueprints for Syn and Asgard.

Meanwhile others have S/M/L Plasma, torpedos, Blast Mortars.

[Raptor34]

The problem with Terrans is that they are very unflexible in regards to heavy firepower.

They don't have torpedos, Mesons are weird and cost multi-milion per S/M ship, so your only options is Osaka main batteries and then grind for rep and blueprints for Syn and Asgard.

Meanwhile others have S/M/L Plasma, torpedos, Blast Mortars.

That's a problem for the player, not the faction.
And let's not forget their basic Pulse laser is already better than yours, faster iirc and definitely harder hitting while still maintaining the accuracy. The other Gatling gun thing is no slouch either. I use that for my small ship anti-capital punch.
Also considering the vast number of capital ships the Terrans field, anti-capital firepower is definitely not something they are lacking. Doubly so when you consider their capitals because of their engines are much more responsive too.

With that said, I don't disagree with giving them some kind of plasma equivalent for their S ships, or even better, fix the AI so that they can actually use MDs, Bosons and Mesons properly.

[mr.WHO]

That's why I prefere VRO balance - where instead of complaining about weapons, I'm rather bothered that I have to choose, because I want to use them all.

Shuulo did great, especially with Terran weapons.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

You're all missing out on the real Terran advantage here.

Producing ships with three materials technologically light years ahead of the CW.

Terrans can multiply like Xenon, or like Zerg to give a clearer example.

Where the CW builds one ship, the Terrans have made four of the same class.

X4's Terrans don't need more powerful weapons.

[S!rAssassin]

Producing ships with three materials technologically light years ahead of the CW.

And then VIGs/RIPs has come with "Closed loop"
All CW ships, all common weaponry, pretty fast productions, even more Zergish

[Raptor34]

Producing ships with three materials technologically light years ahead of the CW.

And then VIGs/RIPs has come with "Closed loop"
All CW ships, all common weaponry, pretty fast productions, even more Zergish

I won't deny it does feel kinda dumb.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

VIGs/RIPs closed loop it is not as efficient as the Terran one and required a lots of energy.

Furthermore on CW ships it is not possible to install Proton Barrage, while on a Kalis (very underrated 4 slots shields ship) you can install Blaster Mortar.

Personally I never play using Terrans because imho they are immensely powerful.

[mr.WHO]

Furthermore on CW ships it is not possible to install Proton Barrage, while on a Kalis (very underrated 4 slots shields ship) you can install Blaster Mortar.

You can install BM, but then you have to bother with CW reputation and/or production chain which already is a bother.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

You can install BM, but then you have to bother with CW reputation and/or production chain which already is a bother.

Depends...

When I don't want to deal with the Terran economy, I send all my ships to the Segaris workshop to have Terran engines and shields fitted.

I can do the same from Terran by sending ships to MIN workshop to equip BM

Bringing the MIN reputation to 10 is certainly not the problem.

[abc0000]

Reballance is necessary, not only for Terrans.

If we talk only about Terrans, then they need:

Increase the power of S engines by 12-14%. It's also strange to me that their combat engines have 90% longer afterburner, while other engines do not have such a buff.

Add 1 shield to kukri and gladius

Takoba add Armor and weight (slow down)

Kalisu add 1 lot under weapons

Syn add 4 groups of 2 turrets like in Syn Mk2 mod

Osaka add 15% speed and increase crew by 20 people

Assgard add 8 turules at the back of the ship (there is 1 more add-on)
add 24 medium turrets in groups of 2 - 4 near L turrets
Remove 2 L batteries, increase the duration of the Mega Laser beam by 3 times, respectively, it will take longer to cut the target to deal damage. reduce the total damage to 500.000 for the entire shot, and remove the ability to maneuver the ship during the shot, so that it would be more difficult to attack moving targets =)

It is worth increasing the power of medium turrets by 20% compared to turrets of other races. and range by 10% (impulse add more speed instead of range)

Increase range of L turrets by 20% damage by 10%