Bad game design: satellites

[abisha1980]

I don't know if it's a thing the devs really thought about but i don't think it healthy for the game to spawn satellites all over the place.
you need around 3 advanced or 8 satellites per cluster it's a massive script the game need to keep tracking without reason (give players a 4 mil satellite that can scan the whole sector or something.
or even better station updates (30KM a station) per cluster for whatever amount of money that it's balanced for will reduce the amount of crap that game need to keep tracking of and keep the game more stable which anyone would like.

[TheGreenman]

The amount of resources the game is using doesn't go up per satellite, it's the size of the total area they are keeping track of. The more of the overall map that the game is keeping track of, the more work your CPU is going to be doing.

[dougeye]

The game is already keeping track of everything, even the things you have not discovered, all satellites do is allow you to see what's going on in that area. But I do agree completely one per region should be enough, good news is that there is already a mod for this and i used to use similar in x3 aswell.

[PabloRSA]

You need to track every object (station, ship, astroid, sat, etc..) anyway, Whats so hard about adding less than 100 satelites to a list of 10000s objects already

The only time that would need to call the satelight script is if you look at the map since they are non existant in the game state unless you are near or directly looking at them. They only exist as data. If you are looking/near at them then they are just an object to be rendered and thats when you need to add extra view distance (or should), but only if the camera is in the scope of that view distance otherwise the call the satelight script should be culled.

When you look at a map, all that is doing is cycling through the available valid objects (to make sure its not destroyed) then its a simple additional check to see if any object you own (ship, station or sat) that is within x range and if so change state to update and visible.
Thats 1 way to do it atleast, there are others where map loads and just cycles objects around your (stations/ships/sats) and checks the state of these objects, this could be a smaller check but its only checking a if statement to see if its is true.

Since a game needs to run 30-60fps all of the game code/logic/scritping/ai/collision and rendering needs to be done every 0.16 of a second (30fps), when you boild it down to that how much time do you really think it takes to check the satelights which are a minnute small part of the game.

Its not about what is kept tracking if the game is stable regarding objects, its making sure objects are correctly organised and destroyed also need to invalidate any reference to the object. If this is not handled correctly then it could cause stability problems but this is down to coding not the objects just existing.

Dont flame me if some of this info is a little off, still learning and its generalised.

[abisha1980]

You need to track every object (station, ship, astroid, sat, etc..) anyway, Whats so hard about adding less than 100 satelites to a list of 10000s objects already

The only time that would need to call the satelight script is if you look at the map since they are non existant in the game state unless you are near or directly looking at them. They only exist as data. If you are looking/near at them then they are just an object to be rendered and thats when you need to add extra view distance (or should), but only if the camera is in the scope of that view distance otherwise the call the satelight script should be culled.

When you look at a map, all that is doing is cycling through the available valid objects (to make sure its not destroyed) then its a simple additional check to see if any object you own (ship, station or sat) that is within x range and if so change state to update and visible.
Thats 1 way to do it atleast, there are others where map loads and just cycles objects around your (stations/ships/sats) and checks the state of these objects, this could be a smaller check but its only checking a if statement to see if its is true.

Since a game needs to run 30-60fps all of the game code/logic/scritping/ai/collision and rendering needs to be done every 0.16 of a second (30fps), when you boild it down to that how much time do you really think it takes to check the satelights which are a minnute small part of the game.

Its not about what is kept tracking if the game is stable regarding objects, its making sure objects are correctly organised and destroyed also need to invalidate any reference to the object. If this is not handled correctly then it could cause stability problems but this is down to coding not the objects just existing.

Dont flame me if some of this info is a little off, still learning and its generalised.

a part from software aspect it's also a gaming aspect on it if you have a reasonable amount of ships those satellites just create to much of map blob and it's unnecessary.
most people use them to update station sales no reason why not a single one exist that cost like 1 mil a unit that update the whole sector that's like 2 times more expensive then using 5 advanced satellites.

[Socratatus]

I don't know if it's a thing the devs really thought about but i don't think it healthy for the game to spawn satellites all over the place.
you need around 3 advanced or 8 satellites per cluster it's a massive script the game need to keep tracking without reason (give players a 4 mil satellite that can scan the whole sector or something.
or even better station updates (30KM a station) per cluster for whatever amount of money that it's balanced for will reduce the amount of crap that game need to keep tracking of and keep the game more stable which anyone would like.

I`m not too worried about satellites and performance. All satellites need do is keep track of numbers and computers are very good when it comes to purely numbers. You could probably have hundreds, possibly thousands with very little slowdown, especially on pcs with good cpus.

[Geonis]

You can buy trade subscription license, and limit satellite deployment only to areas you feel important to see ship movement at.

Don't think satellite spamming was the intended game design, since stations trades are held onto for a while after reveal/revisits.

[DeFragMe]

You can buy trade subscription license, and limit satellite deployment only to areas you feel important to see ship movement at.

Don't think satellite spamming was the intended game design, since stations trades are held onto for a while after reveal/revisits.

feels like it, you also have command for your ship to visit known stations, propably to refresh tradeoffers. but well, first thing i did in my game was dropping a satteliet on every station i found ^^' made no performance difference for my game though...

[Tajin]

If I was running a station I would rather send market updates to any pilot that wants them instead of having the station vincity cluttered with satellites.

[Ghalador]

If I was running a station I would rather send market updates to any pilot that wants them instead of having the station vincity cluttered with satellites.

You would send them SPAM containing your prices whether they want them or not! You would post them on the Xternet because you WANT people to know your prices!
You would do anything just to make sure they know about you and your competitive prices!

In X they charge an exorbitant sum to generally inform you about their products. I would like reality to be like X and X to be like reality!

[pref]

I don't know if it's a thing the devs really thought about but i don't think it healthy for the game to spawn satellites all over the place.
you need around 3 advanced or 8 satellites per cluster it's a massive script the game need to keep tracking without reason (give players a 4 mil satellite that can scan the whole sector or something.
or even better station updates (30KM a station) per cluster for whatever amount of money that it's balanced for will reduce the amount of crap that game need to keep tracking of and keep the game more stable which anyone would like.

You already have subscription for each faction once you reach a high enough rep.

Having to place a single sat to uncover a full system would feel like a stupid hack imo - and there is a mod for that already.

Also you can easily have your ships to lay a satnet - this area is well covered. Maybe a full automatized script would be nice later on but i don't see the need for that either tbh.

[Pares]

I have satellite surveillance of almost every station in the universe, and I haven't noticed any performance hit. Although I agree that satellite view range could be increased to 50 and 100 kilometers for the standard and advanced versions.

[Grimmrog]

The issue is we aren't playing Fuggers in space, therefore such annetwork of local agends isn't needed.

Sattelites have a limuited range, yet the info they gather seems to travel an infinite range? WHAT?

Why in such a futuristic world would stations not simply distribute their sales and buy prices? A station that produces stuff would definately adertise this by it's own and not hide their prices. That feels so 15th century in space.
Same for stations that have need on specific goods, why would they hide their offered prices, if they have need, they want it furfilled, so no reason to hide it. Thats again just 15th century trading in space.

Traders might want to conceal these information for their own needs, but a station that sells wares to everyone or buys wares from everyone has no initial interest to do so, and by the price a simple sattelite has, surely each station would come with a bit more complex than a sattelite module to distribue their sale and buy prices. So what we currently have is a kind of "game feature" for the sake of offering some mechanic but it surely does not fit into an immersive futuristic setup.

[pref]

Why in such a futuristic world would stations not simply distribute their sales and buy prices? A station that produces stuff would definately adertise this by it's own and not hide their prices.

They definitely do if you have good enough relations. And pay for it.

[Grimmrog]

Why in such a futuristic world would stations not simply distribute their sales and buy prices? A station that produces stuff would definately adertise this by it's own and not hide their prices.

They definitely do if you have good enough relations. And pay for it.

Thats nonsense and not within the needs of such station. This is just the QoL feature of the trading progression mechanic, but it makes no sense. Why would a faction with the need to get goods delivered form A to B restrict those informations to anymore? thats neither in the interest of that facion, nor of every single Station.
And even less, if they had a reason to do so would they allow every random bob to throw out hundreds of sattelites in their sectors.
It's an totally out of touch with the timeline of the game to give the player "something to do"

[pref]

Why would a faction with the need to get goods delivered form A to B restrict those informations to anymore? thats neither in the interest of that facion, nor of every single Station.

Allowing trade with other groups was always restricted in human history, especially when there were ongoing large scale open conflicts.
You only trade with people you trust.

On the other hand i don't see why would it make the game any better if we would have instant access to all trade offers across the galaxy.

[hort_wort]

Why would a faction with the need to get goods delivered form A to B restrict those informations to anymore?

Just imagine the competition likes to jam each other's transmissions. If I was selling spacefuel at higher prices than the pirates across the sector, you can safely bet I'd try to limit their advertising range.

[Grimmrog]

Why would a faction with the need to get goods delivered form A to B restrict those informations to anymore? thats neither in the interest of that facion, nor of every single Station.

Allowing trade with other groups was always restricted in human history, especially when there were ongoing large scale open conflicts.
You only trade with people you trust.

On the other hand i don't see why would it make the game any better if we would have instant access to all trade offers across the galaxy.

No annoying flying around and spamming all stations with sattelites in EVERY new game we start. That is already a pretty much "better" thing, as it gets reptetive quite quickly with each playthrough.

Trading with people they trust vs just sharing this information is soemthign different, and obviously, they trust me enough from the beginnign to sell me any amount they have or I can carry. So really no one cares about that "trust" thingy. Further, why is no one buying those info from me for 10M? Or spamming sattelites at my stations? it's clearly a "just keep the player busy and give him a minor progression with trading" feature why this exists, and it has no cosnistency as a galaxywide thing between all races.

Why would a faction with the need to get goods delivered form A to B restrict those informations to anymore?

Just imagine the competition likes to jam each other's transmissions. If I was selling spacefuel at higher prices than the pirates across the sector, you can safely bet I'd try to limit their advertising range.

That would at least make sense as part of the trading conflict and keep the universe alive. Similar as some give you a task to deploy laser turrets. But as said, at the ebginnign you aren't a competitor, you are just a guy doing trades and stations with the interets to buy and sell would mostlikely be interested if you trade for them and not for other stations.

[pref]

No annoying flying around and spamming all stations with sattelites in EVERY new game we start. That is already a pretty much "better" thing, as it gets reptetive quite quickly with each playthrough.

It takes a few clicks on the map, no clue why you do it personally.

The rest i just don't get - why should they tell even their location to you, how would you handle all the offers you cannot reach as you have no idea how to get there - its just useless info at that point.
And obviously if you are already in their space and there is no hostility between you and them that grants you a certain level of trust as you at least made contact.
Which you won't get just from start obviously.

There are mods to reveal the whole map if you don't want to deal with that - why make a cheat official?

[duncan idaho]

The bulk of the work could be performed by a much computationally cheaper "trade relay beacon" or whatever; a long-range satellite that does not relay information other than trade info for stations in its radius. I'd much rather plop down one or two of these per sector and just get the trade info than having to spam 10,20,30 of the things everywhere.