An Honest Opinion

Elder James · Post by **Elder James** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 15:25

I've seen a lot of people posting disparaging and unpleasant things about Egosoft and the developers since the release of X Rebirth. I've seen a lot of people defending them also. What I haven't seen is any of the sense of community this place used to have. It seems to have split down the middle with those who blame Egosoft for all the troubles in the world on one side and those who would defend them on the other.

There's a lot of conjecture as to what Egosoft is doing about the issues with X Rebirth, and I freely admit there are issues and they do need working on, but let them work in peace. I'm not a huge fan of conjecture and guesswork. I'm a fan of facts. So here are some facts for everyone to think about for a while:

Egosoft has given us six amazing games in the X Series so far, many of which had more than their fair share of bugs and glitches on release. Egosoft worked hard to fix those bugs and patch those games.

Egosoft made changes to the X series with each new iteration of the game, removing this, adding that. Some people liked the changes, some did not. But through all of them we had the modding community who worked tirelessly to add/remove/expand the games. Some of these mods were so fantastic that Egosoft themselves added them to the X Superbox which was released in 2010.

Between Egosoft releasing free bonus content, regular and frequent patches and the modding community continuously adding and changing aspects of gameplay each new installment of the X Series has been an amazing and fantastic sandbox game that has allowed each person to play the game as they see fit in a way that suits them. It just takes time.

X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break. Let the modders do their work, let the developers work on their patches. I still believe that X Rebirth has the potential to be every bit as amazing as all the previous games, and I believe that Egosoft and our modding community will not let us down.

Gupster · Post by **Gupster** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 15:30

A very good post indeed, it is true that this forum used to be a pleasant place to be in the past most of the time, and whatever side of the fence people are on it is sad that it has somewhat split the X community, i look forward to a time in the future where things are fixed in the game and people start to come together again, i am sure in truth that most people do not want to be arguing all the time and i include myself in this, but when people attack others on this forum from both sides of the fence it is inevitably that people will hit back at the attack, that is human nature.

synctrance · Post by **synctrance** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 15:33

Elder James wrote: Egosoft made changes to the X series with each new iteration of the game, removing this, adding that. Some people liked the changes, some did not. But through all of them we had the modding community who worked tirelessly to add/remove/expand the games. Some of these mods were so fantastic that Egosoft themselves added them to the X Superbox which was released in 2010.

Between Egosoft releasing free bonus content, regular and frequent patches and the modding community continuously adding and changing aspects of gameplay each new installment of the X Series has been an amazing and fantastic sandbox game that has allowed each person to play the game as they see fit in a way that suits them. It just takes time.

X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break. Let the modders do their work, let the developers work on their patches. I still believe that X Rebirth has the potential to be every bit as amazing as all the previous games, and I believe that Egosoft and our modding community will not let us down.

...

Dr2i · Post by **Dr2i** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 15:33

Clearly something went very wrong in this forum. It's a real shame.

epion · Post by **epion** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:15

Elder James wrote:... I'm a fan of facts. So here are some facts for everyone to think about for a while:

Are you now? Only of facts which please you or of every fact?

Elder James wrote:Egosoft has given us six amazing games in the X Series so far, many of which had more than their fair share of bugs and glitches on release. Egosoft worked hard to fix those bugs and patch those games.

That doesn't speack necessarily for them, more like against them. Yes, all the other X Games had their fair share of bugs and problems, but X Rebirth takes this to a knew level. Which makes is somewhat ridiculous.
And don't forget, in the other games there are STILL bugs which aren't fix until today by Ego ...

Elder James wrote:Egosoft made changes to the X series with each new iteration of the game, removing this, adding that. Some people liked the changes, some did not. But through all of them we had the modding community who worked tirelessly to add/remove/expand the games. Some of these mods were so fantastic that Egosoft themselves added them to the X Superbox which was released in 2010.

And how so is this adding to a situation that shouldn't have happened? X Rebirth, the way it was released, doesn't even deserve to be called a beta with how bug riddled it is.
And hoping for the modders to FIX a game is not how it is supposed to be. It doesn't work that way. I can understand some bugs, but just the amount of problems etc is mind boggling. Ego just failed, plain and simple. They released a game which shouldnt' have been released this early ...

Elder James wrote:Between Egosoft releasing free bonus content, regular and frequent patches and the modding community continuously adding and changing aspects of gameplay each new installment of the X Series has been an amazing and fantastic sandbox game that has allowed each person to play the game as they see fit in a way that suits them. It just takes time.

No, "It just takes time." doesn't work. They promised a game, we payed for it good money and they didn't deliver. Simple. And calling for the modding community just makes the whole situation even more pathetic then it is already.
The sandbox game called X Rebirth is broken. The trading is broken. The AI is either broken or just ridiculous. Even the freaking UI has way to many problems. And don't forget all those dummy NPC and those red head girl on the alion I don't care to remember. I could go on what is broken for the next hour ...

Elder James wrote:X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break. Let the modders do their work, let the developers work on their patches. I still believe that X Rebirth has the potential to be every bit as amazing as all the previous games, and I believe that Egosoft and our modding community will not let us down.

And? So what? I can't expect a new game to work as it should be? Should I expect and accept my games are bug riddled like hell that I'm at the developers mercy to get that patched? I repeat it, even the Story line is broken with and without workarounds ...
Yes. X Rebirth has potential which Ego has wasted. And stop looking for the modders. Modders should expand on a game and trying to FIX it ...

pr0nflakes · Post by **pr0nflakes** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:19

I seem to remember a similar split when Reunion came out, mostly directed at starforce that time though.
I know i couldn't play it at all due to having a external USB dvd drive.

snwboardn21 · Post by **snwboardn21** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:21

The problem is, people are not playing the game because of whatever bug they feel is preventing them from progressing or having a good time. Instead you have everyone who is actually willing to stick around and hoping that something more comes of this, venting their frustrations with Egosoft, other players or whatever it may be here.

Once people are able to get back in and play again, this all will die down to "how do I do XYZ"

I think we all are frustrated in the mean time, and some express that frustration differently.

Maybe not frustration... but definitely anxiety

iuiz · Post by **iuiz** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:26

Elder James wrote:X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.

Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

Skism · Post by **Skism** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:29

iuiz wrote:
Elder James wrote:X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.
Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

I should not feed this but I will say this - They are not terrible people and they don't deserve to lose their jobs Thank You.

Mauzi! · Post by **Mauzi!** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:32

iuiz wrote:Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

...and the car also should have the doors I was shown in the catalog along with the sun roof I was promised - instead of huge holes in the autobody.

Filoo · Post by **Filoo** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:34

iuiz wrote:. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

I'm speechless hearing that. Enough is enough and I don't know who is terrible here.

snwboardn21 · Post by **snwboardn21** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:40

iuiz wrote:
Elder James wrote:X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.
Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

That is beyond rude... They are good people who made a few mistakes. If they lose their jobs, that means Egosoft ceases to exist. If that is truly how you feel, I would prefer that you go ahead and click "Log Out" and never return.

RWolf · Post by **RWolf** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:40

Whenever there is going to be great change, there will be those who are for it and those who are against it. Honestly its pretty my much country summed up in a handbasket right now.

That said, if anyone expects unification then they will need to understand the only way that is going to happen, and rightfully so, is when X rebirth begins working in a fun and playable state...until then, the split is all but natural and a bit of a good thing imo.

dubnium · Post by **dubnium** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:42

snwboardn21 wrote:
iuiz wrote:
Elder James wrote:X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.
Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.
That is beyond rude... They are good people who made a few mistakes. If they lose their jobs, that means Egosoft ceases to exist. If that is truly how you feel, I would prefer that you go ahead and click "Log Out" and never return.

i'm sure quite a few people would like to do exactly that, after they'd gotten their money back of course. not that i think egosoft should close down, they should make X4 instead.

_nox_ · Post by **_nox_** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:43

I'm one of the old timers.

I'm just ignoring the newbie freak-outs and the narcisstic walls of text from people who 'would have done it better."

This shit will all pass, and we'll get to work modding the game and in a few months people will say "wow this game is great how come I didn't hear more about it?"

Until then, you'll have trade that doesn't work, annoying and bizarre design choices, only one ship to fly, godawful flying staring at another ship's ass, bad fleet commands, broken storyline quests...

same as every other X release.

One thing I *will* say about this game that actually matters to me significantly from previous games is that I can finally change some things.

One mistake that the devs have made time and again is that the output rate of raw material and first-tier goods is the SAME as finished goods, which means that the economy is always raw material starved, which is unrealistic and always causes major econ problems in game.

Those factors may be accessible now, so we can finally fix that - we coldn't in the X3 engine because they were hardcoded.

Elder James · Post by **Elder James** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 16:57

Understandably people are angry that the game does not work. I can sympathise, and I do agree that there are issues with X Rebirth that direly need fixing. And I hope that these things are fixed sooner rather than later.

I mentioned the modding community, not because I am hoping they will fix this game, but because the modders have done so much amazing work over the years that I believe it is they who will provide the various 'fixes' that some people are upset about. People want to fly a Cap ship? I have no doubt that some modders are working on it already. Why? Because Egosoft won't. They have one vision for this game, the community however has many visions and ideas, which will only see light through the actions of the modding community.

As an example, cockpits were removed for X3 Reunion and didn't resurface until X Rebirth. The modders however got to work straight away on the release of Reunion and sure enough those who want a cockpit view can have one.

I do not deny that X Rebirth is broken. It is. Campaign mode is a disaster due to the number of bugs, but shouting and ranting at Egosoft or other members of the community will not fix it.

Finally, those of you who use the argument "If I buy a new game on the day of release it should be a working product," you are preaching to the choir. I have long been a proponent of the 'you should only sell a working game' view. But the sad truth of the matter is that this happens less and less these days. Especially to PC games, but since the addition of hard drives to consoles it happens just as frequently with console games as well now. I can't recall the last time a game was released that didn't have a patch to download on day one.

Again, I'm not an advocate of how these things are. I'm not trying to defend Egosoft's failure. I simply hope that the community here stops turning on one another.

eventus · Post by **eventus** » Thu, 28. Nov 13, 17:05

Summarise:

Game release was not deserved and is max. in beta status:
- Game crashes frequently for a lot of ppl with different settings
- Game does not allow to trade (which is one of main ideas behind X-games)
- Game does not allow to do the straight forward story (main idea)
- Game does not allow to mine correctly (Drones are working but just some)
- Game does not allow to Fight (K.I. is extremely stupid. Often ships are just hanging in space - waiting to get destroyed)
- Game does not allow to react to several events (e.g. no info when ships are attacked)

This leads to so much frustration...
- Game should not have been released yet
- Some ppl. say it's fine and they will fix it. That's strange fanboy argumentation. There is "NO EXCUSE" for selling crap. Selling SW is not like u can sell a Byte and purchase for a developement team.
Noone would accept a car for 50.000€ which is delivered w/o tires and engine.

So said this often enough... shame about EGOSOFT!
It will not help anything to complain in each and every thread!

Solution:
So just wait for the bugs to get fixed. Best is not to play at all (if you feel cheated), but start when main bugs are fixed. This is not nice, but see it like an open beta. You pre-ordered and now u are free to participate or not.

So as most would admit EGOSOFT did "shit" here.
Stop frustration and wait, wait, wait...

If you don't like my idea u may go to law and tell us what happened after 2 years.

But PLEASE don't talk in each topic about this story. It's very well known.
You can spam here, this is a intended thread for such nice disappointment storys.

Thanks and best regards![/u]

eventus · Post by **eventus** » Wed, 4. Dec 13, 15:31

sry wrong board...

BaalMoloch · Post by **BaalMoloch** » Wed, 4. Dec 13, 15:58

Forget it Elder James. You are losing your time trying to get people to calm down right now. Just wait. Once most of the bugs are fixed and some new features are added then all this fighting will just fade away. In the meantime just read the info you need and ignore the rest.

Archo · Post by **Archo** » Wed, 4. Dec 13, 16:08

eventus wrote:Summarise:

Game release was not deserved and is max. in beta status:
- Game crashes frequently for a lot of ppl with different settings
- Game does not allow to trade (which is one of main ideas behind X-games)
- Game does not allow to do the straight forward story (main idea)
- Game does not allow to mine correctly (Drones are working but just some)
- Game does not allow to Fight (K.I. is extremely stupid. Often ships are just hanging in space - waiting to get destroyed)
- Game does not allow to react to several events (e.g. no info when ships are attacked)

This leads to so much frustration...
- Game should not have been released yet
- Some ppl. say it's fine and they will fix it. That's strange fanboy argumentation. There is "NO EXCUSE" for selling crap. Selling SW is not like u can sell a Byte and purchase for a developement team.
Noone would accept a car for 50.000€ which is delivered w/o tires and engine.

So said this often enough... shame about EGOSOFT!
It will not help anything to complain in each and every thread!

Solution:
So just wait for the bugs to get fixed. Best is not to play at all (if you feel cheated), but start when main bugs are fixed. This is not nice, but see it like an open beta. You pre-ordered and now u are free to participate or not.

So as most would admit EGOSOFT did "shit" here.
Stop frustration and wait, wait, wait...

If you don't like my idea u may go to law and tell us what happened after 2 years.

But PLEASE don't talk in each topic about this story. It's very well known.
You can spam here, this is a intended thread for such nice disappointment storys.

Thanks and best regards![/u]

I think you are on the right track of viewing this as a pre-order with Beta access. However, pretty much every retailer will allow you to cancel a pre-order and get a refund.

Much of the frustration is caused because people expected to receive a finished game. Every post supporting the game says that it will be better in a couple months, and every rant is complaining because they expected a full game.

IMHO, Egosoft and Steam need to provide full refunds to anyone that asks. Those people can (and I hope many will) return when the game works. However, as the fight is prolonged people will lose faith in both Steam and Egosoft.

Furthermore, there was a discussion about how Steam is more hesitant with refunds as playtime increases. How can someone test new patches to see if issues are resolved if they are concerned that Steam will deny the refund because of the extra play time?

Again, Ego and Steam should just state that all refunds requested before X date will be approved. Allow users to play the new patches up until that date and if people are still dissatisfied then they can get a refund. Hopefully Egosoft resolves most of the issues and everyone is happy.

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