An Honest Opinion

[wasdie]

My opinion is there is the makings here for a great game but nothing is realized due to rushing, bugs, and the developers inability to deliver on what their original goals were (the streamlining is an absolute mess).

They need more time, constant feedback, and modders to show the devs what the core audience wants out of this game.

Sitting here and whining for the 3rd week now that the game is unfinished and broken is not helping anymore. They know that, we know that. No need to keep bashing them constantly. The dev isn't going to somehow stop and think the game is fine if they notice their forums becoming a bit more civil and loaded with constructive criticism and useful feedback. Sitting here screaming "IT'S A CONSOLE GAME" or "THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE RELEASED UNFINISHED CRAP" doesn't really help anything anymore.

[piep]

words

What you should do is get grow a pair, get your refund and htfo period. Every single answer of yours to OP was basically counterproductive crap.

[kuplo]

... I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

Spoken like somebody that hasn't yet held a real job themselves (sorry, but paper routes and McDonalds don't count as a real job).

Terrible people? No! Ted Bundy was a terrible person.

[Archo]

... get your refund and htfo period. ...

I think most people flaming this game/Egosoft/devs are trying to get refunds. Egosoft is pointing people to the retailer, the retailer is sending them back to Egosoft. Since the support section for Egosoft's site points to the forum this is where people end up to vent.

I'd wager that as soon as the flamers get their refund they will disappear in a hurry. Right now this game is a thorn in their side, and neither Egosoft or Steam have been quick to respond.

So, wait two months. Egosoft will fix the game, refunds will be done, and the utopia will arise. Until then, people will be pissed.

[Archo]

Don't like it?: don't play it -> get refund -> play other games -> buy/dont buy it in "6 months" when reviews tells you the game is good/bad -> play other games.

It's more like:
Step 1: Request refund from Steam
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit...?

My issue right now is I have had a ticket opened with Steam for over 2 weeks. The last response from them was almost a week ago. Patch 1.18 has been release and there have been some positive posts, and some negative. However, I can't try it because I am afraid that it will not be what I was looking for and because of the play time Steam will cancel the request.

So, I am stuck. I want to play the game, and I want it to be amazing. I also don't want to be out the $50 when it keeps crashing, or when I can't progress through the story, or when everything that is broken is still broken.

As I wait for Steam to respond I keep checking the forum. I keep hoping that there will be a post that says version 2.0 was released and everything works as advertised. Until then, I guess I am one of the flamers that is extremely disappointed in both Egosoft and Steam for this.

[Skism]

If you are dissatisfied with the product and can't get a refund well...That is a different kettle of fish

[Archo]

If you are dissatisfied with the product and can't get a refund well...That is a different kettle of fish

And that's the kettle of fish I believe most are struggling with. Even the people that are truly enjoying this game admit it has major flaws. Some are able to look past that, others can not. Unfortunately, those of us that can't are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I do agree that those wishing Egosoft devs lose their jobs and Egosoft shuts down are going to far. However, I also believe that Egosoft needs to take some major corrective action in the future. I sincerely hope that in 6 months time this game is amazing. However, I'd rather have my $50 to spend on something else to play for those 6 months.

[Dom1988]

X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.

Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

you sir, have your head twisted.
you cant compare a car to a game which is $50,-.
For a car you pay at least 10K ( a new car that is ) of course you get quality for that price, but there are still bugs in the car ( simply cause nothing is perfect )
now you paid $50, and are acting like you bought a car.
Get real dude

[FinWiz]

This is what happens pretty much every time when people get passionate about game. I don't like it and it shouldn't happen but it does because people care about that game or series. Exactly same thing happened with planetside 2. Ps2 Forum was actually even more active than this forum and empire system just made it perfect for real forum wars. At least in here modders keep threads in control and we haven't yet seen anyone being called "forum warrior". And what about me3 ending? It was like every other video about ME was about how bad the ending was. I like your try, every once in a while someone needs to tell people how stupid it is But unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it.

[vargata]

X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.

Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

you sir, have your head twisted.
you cant compare a car to a game which is $50,-.
For a car you pay at least 10K ( a new car that is ) of course you get quality for that price, but there are still bugs in the car ( simply cause nothing is perfect )
now you paid $50, and are acting like you bought a car.
Get real dude

there is no difference at all. for those buying a ferrari, it's price is like the $50 for me. would they be happy with it without wheels? hardly.

On the other hand, I'm a dev, not a gamedev just a dev. I've left he business because my views about quality and deadlines doesnt fit the modern vision about software development. It's not that bad. I miss it sometimes, but at least I never had to lie to my returning buyers that this will be the same good as the old one and even better...
I think now those are the more pissed off by ego who loved them the most. And it's not because of bugs, It's because we had countless hours with earlier X games and what we were thinking in the past years (not just since X:R was announced but a lot earlier) is that -Ohhh, i hope it will have a next part which will even further expand the possibilities, what will enhance this universe, gives more chance to do even more, maybe even the AI will be new and better... and when the day comes, you can see only dumbed down game what can't even give what the earlier ones. where is the wisdom of the "expanding further"? It can crash dreams, but only for those HAD dreams...

[Dom1988]

X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.

Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

you sir, have your head twisted.
you cant compare a car to a game which is $50,-.
For a car you pay at least 10K ( a new car that is ) of course you get quality for that price, but there are still bugs in the car ( simply cause nothing is perfect )
now you paid $50, and are acting like you bought a car.
Get real dude

there is no difference at all. for those buying a ferrari, it's price is like the $50 for me. would they be happy with it without wheels? hardly.

On the other hand, I'm a dev, not a gamedev just a dev. I've left he business because my views about quality and deadlines doesnt fit the modern vision about software development. It's not that bad. I miss it sometimes, but at least I never had to lie to my returning buyers that this will be the same good as the old one and even better...
I think now those are the more pissed off by ego who loved them the most. And it's not because of bugs, It's because we had countless hours with earlier X games and what we were thinking in the past years (not just since X:R was announced but a lot earlier) is that -Ohhh, i hope it will have a next part which will even further expand the possibilities, what will enhance this universe, gives more chance to do even more, maybe even the AI will be new and better... and when the day comes, you can see only dumbed down game what can't even give what the earlier ones. where is the wisdom of the "expanding further"? It can crash dreams, but only for those HAD dreams...

i can agree with that, but dreams are just dreams. And as long people cant do anything for that dream, then why have your hopes up?
What happened with every day is a new day? Same goes with games. Just like AC: Black flag, people keep buying into taht series simply cause they love how the game is. The game coe never changes. Now with the X series it always changes, sometimes its dumbed down, sometimes its incredibly difficult to understand.
I Remember spending over 4 hours in X;AP just to figure ot the controls, the mechanics and other stuff and still i didnt know everything.
But i do think people need to understand the gaming generation that excists now is dumb.
Where we the players from the "old" generation who still remember the amiga, commodore etc have a more in-depth knowledge of games, and its mechanics. And can commit to games for certain hours just figuring out how it works.
Now you have the generation which just want to point and shoot.
So if you go fom something very complicated to something very dumb down, its calling for problems.

But comin back to the car and this game comperison...
its the same as comparing a airplane with a boat.
the prices are different, so the expections are different, higher or lower.
And having high expectations of a game if just stupid. i bought the game 3 days ago, i've read the bad critics and all that other stuff, none the less i bought it. Simply cause the X series is unique in its own way, i might not play it this much, i kinda hate the game in its current state. But hey, next month is another pay-check and i have the money again.
Maybe i buy a new car and b*tch about the engine, simply cause i bought a honda while i love nissan.

[astreus]

Life is hard and so is worldwide business.

You have to deside what you do or not.

If you offer something to you fans or members of a club, for a free share nobody could sue you for product quality. So, if THIS XR would have been out as a beta release for testing - everything fine.

But if you sell - international business - a game for a common price, such a game have to stand the competition and measured up with the current top games on the market.

So it is a fact, comparing the announcements with the real status, this game is too much broken and for the way it should be - not playable.

If you a hard-liner, you could call this cheating, no doubt that's not fun anyway. If you amiable, it's at least sloppy and foolish to sell such item, far away from professional business (except you will run down your company).

That's it. (so far)

Let's see if and how Egosoft manage to wangle this in the near future.

[yoyolll]

X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.

Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

you sir, have your head twisted.
you cant compare a car to a game which is $50,-.
For a car you pay at least 10K ( a new car that is ) of course you get quality for that price, but there are still bugs in the car ( simply cause nothing is perfect )
now you paid $50, and are acting like you bought a car.
Get real dude

there is no difference at all. for those buying a ferrari, it's price is like the $50 for me. would they be happy with it without wheels? hardly.

On the other hand, I'm a dev, not a gamedev just a dev. I've left he business because my views about quality and deadlines doesnt fit the modern vision about software development. It's not that bad. I miss it sometimes, but at least I never had to lie to my returning buyers that this will be the same good as the old one and even better...
I think now those are the more pissed off by ego who loved them the most. And it's not because of bugs, It's because we had countless hours with earlier X games and what we were thinking in the past years (not just since X:R was announced but a lot earlier) is that -Ohhh, i hope it will have a next part which will even further expand the possibilities, what will enhance this universe, gives more chance to do even more, maybe even the AI will be new and better... and when the day comes, you can see only dumbed down game what can't even give what the earlier ones. where is the wisdom of the "expanding further"? It can crash dreams, but only for those HAD dreams...

i can agree with that, but dreams are just dreams. And as long people cant do anything for that dream, then why have your hopes up?
What happened with every day is a new day? Same goes with games. Just like AC: Black flag, people keep buying into taht series simply cause they love how the game is. The game coe never changes. Now with the X series it always changes, sometimes its dumbed down, sometimes its incredibly difficult to understand.
I Remember spending over 4 hours in X;AP just to figure ot the controls, the mechanics and other stuff and still i didnt know everything.
But i do think people need to understand the gaming generation that excists now is dumb.
Where we the players from the "old" generation who still remember the amiga, commodore etc have a more in-depth knowledge of games, and its mechanics. And can commit to games for certain hours just figuring out how it works.
Now you have the generation which just want to point and shoot.
So if you go fom something very complicated to something very dumb down, its calling for problems.

But comin back to the car and this game comperison...
its the same as comparing a airplane with a boat.
the prices are different, so the expections are different, higher or lower.
And having high expectations of a game if just stupid. i bought the game 3 days ago, i've read the bad critics and all that other stuff, none the less i bought it. Simply cause the X series is unique in its own way, i might not play it this much, i kinda hate the game in its current state. But hey, next month is another pay-check and i have the money again.
Maybe i buy a new car and b*tch about the engine, simply cause i bought a honda while i love nissan.

I don't think you know the value of your money. If you can just "get over it" then good, I am happy for you that you can give your hard earned money to somebody for a broken product and just forget about it. But for most of us that's not the case. Whether it's fifty dollars or fifty thousand dollars, I got ripped off. You did too, but just because you are okay with it doesn't mean everyone else will be.

As for the topic, it is an understandable tragedy. I have been frequenting these forums since X3, but I did not register until I bought rebirth because now I am pissed off and this is a reasonable place to vent. There are others here who share my views, and I would like to talk to them about it until my anger subsides.

It is sad, however, that a lot of unrelated threads are getting derailed by these arguments. But you must understand, a lot of people are in my position and they are justifiably angry. If egosoft were freely giving refunds (which I personally think they are obligated to do), it would be another story.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't want a refund because I'm still excited to see what will become of this game. But people who want refunds need to get refunds because they didn't get what they paid for.

[CARISMBLUE]

I think it's only annoying that people act like everyone should get their refund. Or saying Egosoft people should loose their job. The second one os the worst, because it's not Egosoft's decision to release the game. I'm pretty sure they knew the issues and they wouldn't release a game in this state if they don't have to. But the publisher gives the money and they dictate when to release the game. I can even imagine that Deepsilver thought that Egosoft will fix all known issues until the day one patch. Egosoft can guarantee this? I doubt they can. So why should a ship designer or a 3D modeller loose his job, when Deepsilver forced the release? I don't see any reason for that.

That's exactly what many developers at Kickstarter criticize. Publishers dictate the release dates and how many features get into the game until release. Every new feature costs extra money, so skip it if we can patch it. And that's the general mentality publishers have I think. We can start patching when we earned the money.

X-Rebirth has major issues, I can't really play the game myself due to low frame rate in the first place.

[jocan2003]

. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

I'm speechless hearing that. Enough is enough and I don't know who is terrible here.

While i am disapointed about the release, i also know that Egosoft always work hard to fix their shit and provide the fans new and free DLC, content call it what you like.

While i am pissed at them right now, its mostly because of bug but i know it will be eventually fixed, improved and expanded in the following months, and all that for free. For fixing bugs, i expect every company to fix their shit for free, but what will come after will be free to unless they got addicted to money and start chaging for DLC, if they do, they will loose quite a bunch of loyal fan im quite sure, but again i might be wrong there.

I wish no one to loose theyre job, the worst i think is they deserve a *gibs* slap as wake up call and that they fix their problems.

[yoyolll]

I think it's only annoying that people act like everyone should get their refund. Or saying Egosoft people should loose their job. The second one os the worst, because it's not Egosoft's decision to release the game. I'm pretty sure they knew the issues and they wouldn't release a game in this state if they don't have to. But the publisher gives the money and they dictate when to release the game. I can even imagine that Deepsilver thought that Egosoft will fix all known issues until the day one patch. Egosoft can guarantee this? I doubt they can. So why should a ship designer or a 3D modeller loose his job, when Deepsilver forced the release? I don't see any reason for that.

That's exactly what many developers at Kickstarter criticize. Publishers dictate the release dates and how many features get into the game until release. Every new feature costs extra money, so skip it if we can patch it. And that's the general mentality publishers have I think. We can start patching when we earned the money.

X-Rebirth has major issues, I can't really play the game myself due to low frame rate in the first place.

Egosoft was the publisher if you bought the game on Steam. Deep silver only made the physical copies.

Besides, it's no excuse for selling broken products. A refund is not for people who don't like what they buy, it's for people that buy something which doesn't work.

If they needed more money to patch the game to a playable state, they should have said so instead of selling it as a finished product.

[CARISMBLUE]

I think it's only annoying that people act like everyone should get their refund. Or saying Egosoft people should loose their job. The second one os the worst, because it's not Egosoft's decision to release the game. I'm pretty sure they knew the issues and they wouldn't release a game in this state if they don't have to. But the publisher gives the money and they dictate when to release the game. I can even imagine that Deepsilver thought that Egosoft will fix all known issues until the day one patch. Egosoft can guarantee this? I doubt they can. So why should a ship designer or a 3D modeller loose his job, when Deepsilver forced the release? I don't see any reason for that.

That's exactly what many developers at Kickstarter criticize. Publishers dictate the release dates and how many features get into the game until release. Every new feature costs extra money, so skip it if we can patch it. And that's the general mentality publishers have I think. We can start patching when we earned the money.

X-Rebirth has major issues, I can't really play the game myself due to low frame rate in the first place.

Egosoft was the publisher if you bought the game on Steam. Deep silver only made the physical copies.

Besides, it's no excuse for selling broken products. A refund is not for people who don't like what they buy, it's for people that buy something which doesn't work.

If they needed more money to patch the game to a playable state, they should have said so instead of selling it as a finished product.

Yes they are the publishers on steam, but the game also sold in stores as boxed version and that's something difficult to delay due to marketing, boxing and so on. The day the release day was set, they had no chance for additional delay. It's not as easy as it sounds. And releasing the boxed version and the steam version differently makes no sense.

[Dom1988]

X Rebirth has been out for two weeks. Give it a break.

Why should I? They sold me something that does not work for 50€. If I buy a new car I don't want to be able to drive it in two month. I want to drive it from the moment I payed for it.

Selling stuff that does not work is fraud. I hope they loose their jobs because they are terrible people.

you sir, have your head twisted.
you cant compare a car to a game which is $50,-.
For a car you pay at least 10K ( a new car that is ) of course you get quality for that price, but there are still bugs in the car ( simply cause nothing is perfect )
now you paid $50, and are acting like you bought a car.
Get real dude

there is no difference at all. for those buying a ferrari, it's price is like the $50 for me. would they be happy with it without wheels? hardly.

On the other hand, I'm a dev, not a gamedev just a dev. I've left he business because my views about quality and deadlines doesnt fit the modern vision about software development. It's not that bad. I miss it sometimes, but at least I never had to lie to my returning buyers that this will be the same good as the old one and even better...
I think now those are the more pissed off by ego who loved them the most. And it's not because of bugs, It's because we had countless hours with earlier X games and what we were thinking in the past years (not just since X:R was announced but a lot earlier) is that -Ohhh, i hope it will have a next part which will even further expand the possibilities, what will enhance this universe, gives more chance to do even more, maybe even the AI will be new and better... and when the day comes, you can see only dumbed down game what can't even give what the earlier ones. where is the wisdom of the "expanding further"? It can crash dreams, but only for those HAD dreams...

i can agree with that, but dreams are just dreams. And as long people cant do anything for that dream, then why have your hopes up?
What happened with every day is a new day? Same goes with games. Just like AC: Black flag, people keep buying into taht series simply cause they love how the game is. The game coe never changes. Now with the X series it always changes, sometimes its dumbed down, sometimes its incredibly difficult to understand.
I Remember spending over 4 hours in X;AP just to figure ot the controls, the mechanics and other stuff and still i didnt know everything.
But i do think people need to understand the gaming generation that excists now is dumb.
Where we the players from the "old" generation who still remember the amiga, commodore etc have a more in-depth knowledge of games, and its mechanics. And can commit to games for certain hours just figuring out how it works.
Now you have the generation which just want to point and shoot.
So if you go fom something very complicated to something very dumb down, its calling for problems.

But comin back to the car and this game comperison...
its the same as comparing a airplane with a boat.
the prices are different, so the expections are different, higher or lower.
And having high expectations of a game if just stupid. i bought the game 3 days ago, i've read the bad critics and all that other stuff, none the less i bought it. Simply cause the X series is unique in its own way, i might not play it this much, i kinda hate the game in its current state. But hey, next month is another pay-check and i have the money again.
Maybe i buy a new car and b*tch about the engine, simply cause i bought a honda while i love nissan.

I don't think you know the value of your money. If you can just "get over it" then good, I am happy for you that you can give your hard earned money to somebody for a broken product and just forget about it. But for most of us that's not the case. Whether it's fifty dollars or fifty thousand dollars, I got ripped off. You did too, but just because you are okay with it doesn't mean everyone else will be.

As for the topic, it is an understandable tragedy. I have been frequenting these forums since X3, but I did not register until I bought rebirth because now I am pissed off and this is a reasonable place to vent. There are others here who share my views, and I would like to talk to them about it until my anger subsides.

It is sad, however, that a lot of unrelated threads are getting derailed by these arguments. But you must understand, a lot of people are in my position and they are justifiably angry. If egosoft were freely giving refunds (which I personally think they are obligated to do), it would be another story.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't want a refund because I'm still excited to see what will become of this game. But people who want refunds need to get refunds because they didn't get what they paid for.

Okay look im not gonna type my stuff over and over again. So just read my thread, perhaps you will then understand what i mean.
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 9ac8e904de

[yoyolll]

Yes they are the publishers on steam, but the game also sold in stores as boxed version and that's something difficult to delay due to marketing, boxing and so on. The day the release day was set, they had no chance for additional delay. It's not as easy as it sounds. And releasing the boxed version and the steam version differently makes no sense.

That's true, but you said "I'm pretty sure they knew the issues and they wouldn't release a game in this state if they don't have to. But the publisher gives the money and they dictate when to release the game. I can even imagine that Deepsilver thought that Egosoft will fix all known issues until the day one patch"
What I'm saying is they weren't under some kind of financial ultimatum to release the game in such a state. They made a choice: should we release the game like this or delay it and face the consequences of pushing back all the dates? I think they made the wrong choice because now they sold us a broken game. Point is, they had control over the release date, not another company. There was stress, but it was still their decision in the end.

Okay look im not gonna type my stuff over and over again. So just read my thread, perhaps you will then understand what i mean.
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 9ac8e904de

That's a nice, civil post. Nicer than the things you wrote in this thread. But whether or not it changes a damn thing, people are justifiably angry at egosoft and they have every right to vent their anger on the forums. Yes a lot of people go overboard and say things out of line. That's bad and I'm not condoning it. But you can't just tell every single person to shut up and get over it.
No, I can't make a better game (better in terms of functionality). But I also don't sell games to people. We pay them to make a video game, and if it doesn't work then I am right to be upset. And if you don't care for my reaction then it's none of your business anyway but you can't deny anyone their voice.

[Skillionaire]

Meh couldn't be arsed arguing with the dishonest delusional steam support any longer. Told em what i though about their dodgy service and ended it there.

Although i'll use the platform to play and hold my games, from now on i'll be purchasing keys from amazon i know they have a fair policy for customers in place considering refunds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the perplexed fans on the other side of the fence wondering about why all the rage. Simple you don't expect to buy a game and have it half finished. You wouldn't buy a half eaten apple would you? We'll have to wait at least 6 months before the game becomes semi decent. Getting sick and tired of game developers getting away with dishonest corrupt practices.
Steam really need a quality control system in place. This wasn't a greenlit game it shouldn't of been released on the steam in this state.

It's really unfair I feel, to put all the weight on the modders, they're so kind and generous trying to fix problems that shouldn't be there's to fix. Egosoft you should be really ashamed right about now.

There's been no decent open communication between them and the community whatsoever egotistical stubborn cowards. Yes it's the truth. Don't go moderating it now. *waves the finger.