Boarding/Interior Combat Mechanics?

[Aragosnat]

We should wait and see if they can actually make just walking around on stations and ships compelling, before we demand even more.

Agreed. There should be more poll options as well. To limiting. Do agree it would be a nice feature. But, it is also uncharted waters in a sense for Egosoft.

[slimgrin]

I voted no, but there's a qualifier: I would love to have FP combat in the future, when either Egosoft or a devoted team of modders has the time to do it right. I think they have their plate full right now and including half-assed FP combat would hurt the game. Done right, it would expand the game's awesomeness by a factor of ten.

[Olterin]

Voted "no" as well, reason being that the probability of an FPS by Egosoft ending up ... well, not that good, is too high a risk. Also, I'm not so sure the engine they have built would be up to par to have and run a proper FPS AI for opponents ... all-the-while running the simulation of the rest of the game universe.

... So, while I do like the idea, it would put the player in a potentially much more vulnerable position, as well as probably being out of reach in terms of current development resources.

[michaelr513]

Actively participating in boarding parties would be great! It could be an optional feature for those that do not want to use it. Perhaps we could send in a bipedal drone to be controlled via VR interface like other drones. Enemy ai would be a challenge, but I wouldn't expect too much. How great would it be to see the security systems at work like internal lasers etc? This could also open up the possibility of capturing stations as well as big ships. For some reason I was reminded of blade runner when watching some of the gameplay videos... Maybe I am dreaming but it seems that first person control could lead to planet colonization and interaction in one of the sequels to rebirth. I agree core features should take priority but I am all for the game eventually evolving into a full fledged space rpg.

[Night Nord]

Obviously yes, but obviously that's not the top priority.

Once EgoSoft will ever polish whatever they push as their key features (trading, space-fighting, station/empire-building, err... thinking?...), which is not the easy task, I'll be longing for FPS experience and land-on-planets with planetside battles. But not before that. Oh, wait. Good motivating plot also goes before FPS modes, right.

Anyway, I think that's going to happen (if not already), because why otherwise they've done all such stuff including jumping, strafing and crouching? For NPC interaction? Don't be naive.

[gbjbaanb]

oh lord no. Now if they had marines in a strategic game, top-down view where you issue orders to each like X-COM ... then we'd talk. But running around in a jerky FPS while your ship flies around on auto-pilot... no thanks.

So yes, plot and interface goes way before gimmicks.

[Kai101m5]

I agree that I would not want FPS combat to become a serious component (eg Mace Griffen), however, it could be a good optional component IF ship boarding is a possibility.

As I understand things, boarding will be possible, but it will be executed by NPCs (forgive and correct me if this is a phantom of my imagination). A very simple combat mechanic using cheap-o-cover fire could make a marginally fun interlude that would be entirely optional.

Maybe a flawless boarding action carried out by the player reduces the collateral damage to your team and/or the ship. This would keep it balanced so people who don't want to play FPS don't have to play FPS.

One thing I would very much like to see is the ability to customise the interior of the skunk. Different style décor, trophies, etc. Same with offices in stations you own. In X games of old I would always get very attached to a particular ship and have often thought it would be great to be able to live on it - if you catch my drift.

Generally though, the interiors have me more stoked about a games since.. well.. X2 really Great job guys. You're renewing my faith in the games industry.

[Phaser Rave]

I really hope they do. If they haven't already, I hope they are considering it for a future patch, DLC, or X game.

Would really love to board and take over ships from first person.

[kirth]

I think I dont want to actually board myself, but being able to SEE how the boarding party goes through and giving them orders and such¿Perhaps being there via a drone?. **** yes

[Killjaeden]

boarding in fps mode requires all ships interiors to be modelled
almost the sole reason why we only have one flyable ship to begin with...

-> will not happen

[Chris0132]

boarding in fps mode requires all ships interiors to be modelled
almost the sole reason why we only have one flyable ship to begin with...

-> will not happen

Well I was actually thinking, stations currently are built out of repeating modules, you model one module and then stick it on everything, similar to how stations worked in X3.

So why not apply that inside out?

Instead of a station just being a collection of exterior modules, why not interior modules too?

Snap them together in the same way, have them provide some function, and then at the same time, make them define the interior layout of the ship.


Certainly it would be a lot of work if it's not already implemented, but the logic is there already, all you'd really need is some more art assets (but not too many) and a new module-snapping system for ship interiors, as well as station exteriors.

I'd certainly think it was cool for a later expansion or game, and it'd be a possibly quite viable approach to having multiple ships with proper interiors.

[Walton Simons]

There was this mod I played a few years back,it had space combat with ship-vs-ship or boarding options with very good fps elements.You could sabotage ships internally or target subsytems.
Those guys basically took a fps like UT3 and slapped quite a nice&detailed space part.Even though the mod was MP-orientated the bots had a good AI in boarding ops.
Watch the vids:http://www.moddb.com/mods/angels-fall-first-planetstorm

I doubt we will get something like this in Rebirth 1.0 but it could really make it the ultimate space game if something like this was implemented in an add-on or expansion.

[Nickvr628]

HECK YAH!

But I want it to not be like a FPS style gameplay, but I want to be able to go to a shop and buy a "Disintegrator Rifle" or a low yield sidearm and equip it to my player, so if I want to rob wares on a ship/station, I can Pull out my sidearm and blast some guys. If you have seen the new videos you have seen the way police work now, I think station security would come and detain/kill you. I think that that would be the best way to implicate this feature.

P.S. If I have marines on my ship, when I walk around I want to see them walking around, cleaning their weapons, Ect.

[Promethium]

Turning boarding into an FPS would be a massive mistake on Egosoft's part and I'm sure they haven't done it.

I'm sure they included some way to watch your marines this time around, but anything past that would be overboard. This is a space sim, not the next Cawwadooty.

[notaterran]

Perhaps a programmer here can correct me, but there is no need for Egosoft to reinvent the wheel and spend lots of resources. Let's see:

1) There are already self-contained environments which model physics, shooting, and enemy AI. For example Unreal Tournament. When boarding, how difficult would it be to pause the outside action and enter the FPS world for those who would wish it (as opposed to the traditional stat-based boarding). As for making the environments themselves, I'm not sure you realize how many fan-made maps are already out there that are suited to be the interior of a ship, and those were made with the UT editor on a little DirectX 7 engine. At least until Nali City crashed and burned there were more maps than we could play in our free time. The interior of a ship can be a few hallways, a few storage rooms with crates and a bridge. There are PLENTY of fan-made maps like that already (I keep bringing up that they're fan-made because some of you make it sound as if it's difficult to make indoor environments. The interior of a ship is often in games incredibly industrial and generic). Forget the newest versions, even UT99 is MORE THAN ENOUGH to cover the requirements for simulating boarding a ship: enter an area, fight your way through and reach the bridge (see UT99 game mode “Assault”).

2) Fighting your way through in boarding is already part of the game, the only difference would be the person's perspective. I don't know about you, but I'd rather play Fallout and GTA in the first person (showing my age here a bit).

3) If you played UT99 you know that you can already adjust the difficulty of the AI, so no one has to be stuck with either dumb bots or superhuman badass killing machines that will make headshots with pixel-perfect precision every single time. The style of gameplay will depend on the map; some environments call for a slower, thoughtful approach while others are just fragfests. That depends on the map's design. I played a UT map once that simulated urban combat, and it was a lot closer to Arma than Quake.

In short, licensing even an old engine provides a self-contained environment with basic physics and enemy AI that will be adequate for the purposes of boarding a ship.

[Wana]

YES, but...

1 - Savegame disabled while boarding (checkpoint "maybe")

2 - no game pause outside.

3 - marines squads upgradable stuff (you give them stuff, an assault rifle/ fusion pistol is beter than a sidearm.)

4 - Marines squads difficulty based on their training and credits involved. but coding AI is another story. Maybe using the total carnage from marathon series

5 - if you want to avoid pixel perfect insta-headshot, use "alien" weapons. no-kinetic like terran guns. Just charged, medium speed shots.

[randomuser]

if i own factories etc i certainly wouldnt risk my life on a boadring attemp.. lol

i d send my marine meatbags .



FPS combat doesnt make saense without respawns
there are no respawns in x so thats a clear NO

[Killjaeden]

boarding in fps mode requires all ships interiors to be modelled
almost the sole reason why we only have one flyable ship to begin with...

-> will not happen

Well I was actually thinking, stations currently are built out of repeating modules, you model one module and then stick it on everything, similar to how stations worked in X3.

you cant build space ship interior in modules

1) There are already self-contained environments which model physics, shooting, and enemy AI. For example Unreal Tournament.

you cant just pop a game engine into another engine. Thats wishfull thinking. + Interior has also be modelled so that it matches the exterior. The existance of fan made maps for UT does not shorten the work required nor has it any relevance. Graphics have to match 100% or it will look stupid.

[Nikola515]

if i own factories etc i certainly wouldnt risk my life on a boadring attemp.. lol

i d send my marine meatbags .



FPS combat doesnt make saense without respawns
there are no respawns in x so thats a clear NO

What if you can send mech drones and control them via VR glasses and help your marines while you are safe in Skunk This way if you die you just send/teleport another drone

[Galaxy613]

Perhaps a programmer here can correct me, but there is no need for Egosoft to reinvent the wheel and spend lots of resources. Let's see:

1) There are already self-contained environments which model physics, shooting, and enemy AI. For example Unreal Tournament. When boarding, how difficult would it be to pause the outside action and enter the FPS world for those who would wish it (as opposed to the traditional stat-based boarding).

To pause the game? Not hard at all. To intergrate a full FPS engine into Egosoft's space game engine? It would probably take a full year to get working right. You can not just plug one engine into another and expect it to work.

As for making the environments themselves, I'm not sure you realize how many fan-made maps are already out there that are suited to be the interior of a ship, and those were made with the UT editor on a little DirectX 7 engine.

I'm not sure you realize how annoying it will be to find and get approval from those map creators will be. And maps that looked good in DX7 will not look good in DX11. Egosoft will have to make new maps from scratch.

At least until Nali City crashed and burned there were more maps than we could play in our free time. The interior of a ship can be a few hallways, a few storage rooms with crates and a bridge. There are PLENTY of fan-made maps like that already (I keep bringing up that they're fan-made because some of you make it sound as if it's difficult to make indoor environments. The interior of a ship is often in games incredibly industrial and generic). Forget the newest versions, even UT99 is MORE THAN ENOUGH to cover the requirements for simulating boarding a ship: enter an area, fight your way through and reach the bridge (see UT99 game mode “Assault”).

Yeah and those battles take a long time, you really want to pause the whole universe you are playing in just for that? That seriously messes with Egosoft's insistance that there's always a world bigger than you that's going on in the background. When you pause the background you are changing something very crucial to what makes the X-Games the X-Games...

2) Fighting your way through in boarding is already part of the game, the only difference would be the person's perspective. I don't know about you, but I'd rather play Fallout and GTA in the first person (showing my age here a bit).

3) If you played UT99 you know that you can already adjust the difficulty of the AI, so no one has to be stuck with either dumb bots or superhuman badass killing machines that will make headshots with pixel-perfect precision every single time. The style of gameplay will depend on the map; some environments call for a slower, thoughtful approach while others are just fragfests. That depends on the map's design. I played a UT map once that simulated urban combat, and it was a lot closer to Arma than Quake.

You grossly underestimate AI programming. They spent a lot of time on that code, code that Egosoft could be making for other more important to X:Rebirth's genre than what will eventually be just a minigame.

In short, licensing even an old engine provides a self-contained environment with basic physics and enemy AI that will be adequate for the purposes of boarding a ship.

Licensing an old engine and getting it to work with an new engine is very hazardous and would take a lot of time to make it look right. As a programmer I would rather start with the current FPS sections already in Rebirth and work from there, but having any FPS sections, pausing the universe outside or not, would only lose the focus of what Egosoft is trying to accomplish.